Wheel of Time
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@Tat Interesting, I did not know that. I might check it out just to check it out. Thanks!
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Spirit Lake's magic system actually would handle most parts of channeling pretty well -- it already has schools that would work for flows, and it can deal damage, apply affects, and heal damage in combat.
What it can't do very well without relatively significant additions (from what little I've seen of Spirit Lake, but generally what I've seen from FS3) is slicing weaves, multi-flow weaves, or long-running slice/shield duels (most FS3 affects take place the turn you do them, save for reloading, from what I've seen).
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Locking people in weaves of air was also a huge deal in the books and I am not sure how well that would translate to FS3. The ability of literally any competent channeler to immediately and inescapably incapacitate any one (or several if an actively powerful channeler) non channeling person in a heartbeat came up rather a lot.
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What it can't do very well without relatively significant additions (from what little I've seen of Spirit Lake, but generally what I've seen from FS3) is slicing weaves, multi-flow weaves, or long-running slice/shield duels (most FS3 affects take place the turn you do them, save for reloading, from what I've seen).
It's been a long time since I've read these books - if you describe how these would need to function, I can probably speak to whether I think you can convince FS3 to do it (and how hard it might be).
@Packrat said in Wheel of Time:
Locking people in weaves of air was also a huge deal in the books and I am not sure how well that would translate to FS3. The ability of literally any competent channeler to immediately and inescapably incapacitate any one (or several if an actively powerful channeler) non channeling person in a heartbeat came up rather a lot.
You could hack this into FS3 pretty easily using subdue. In fact, SL is like 75% of the way there already - I call them 'stuns', but it's basically the same thing. Right now it's a roll, but there's no reason you couldn't make the roll auto-succeed (or just mod it up so the chances are really, really good). As is, you have to hold a stun spell (ie, keep casting it every round) to keep it working, but that's actually on my list to change.
I think even multiple targets would be fairly easy to introduce here.
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@Seraphim73 said in Wheel of Time:
most FS3 affects take place the turn you do them, save for reloading, from what I've seen
That's just the way the standard actions are coded though. If you're adding custom code (which would be required to do any magic system) then you can make it as complex as you wanted. Subdue, aim and reload are all examples of actions that can span multiple turns.
@Tat has spent a ton of effort coding up SL's magic system, so I don't want to make it sound like this is easy to do. But as long as you stick within the effects provided by the system (damage, knockout, subdue, suppression, etc.) it's possible. New effects are possible too but that requires more in-depth surgery into the guts of the system versus just leveraging existing code with new actions.
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@Seraphim73 said in Wheel of Time:
slicing weaves
Hrm. This could be some sort of defensive action, kind of make a roll opposing another roll and if the defensive roll is higher, then that negates the attack?
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Binding someone in Air is easy, as others mentioned, and as @Packrat said, it's one of the more prominent reminders of just how utterly unbalanced the channeler/non-channeler divide is in the Wheel of Time.
@Tat
Slicing Weaves: Countering incoming channeling attacks with flows of Spirit (that's easy enough), with a distracting "lash-back" effect if one of your weaves is sliced.Multi-flow weaves: Creating lighting requires strength in both Air and Fire (as I recall, and maybe Spirit too?). It gets even more complicated when you get to the idea that the requirements for the same weave may be different for male and female channelers.
Shielding duels: Just straight up channeling strength contests, straining to cut the other person off from the One Power (magic). If the other person isn't holding the One Power, it's easy, but if the other person -is- holding the One Power, it's relatively impossible unless you a) distract them, or b) are much, much stronger than them.
Severing (hey look, I've thought of more!): It's Shielding with an edge (literally). If you succeed, you cut the other person off from the One Power forever (for certain definitions of "forever").
Overchanneling: Channel too much and you'll get really, really tired. Channel even more, and you might burn yourself out and make yourself unable to use the One Power ever again (for certain definitions of "ever again").
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@Seraphim73 Damn dude. A lot to consider there to be sure. There's also burning oneself out too. Trying to do too much with the One Power that you just totally cut off your connection to the True Source.
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@Tat
Slicing Weaves: Countering incoming channeling attacks with flows of Spirit (that's easy enough), with a distracting "lash-back" effect if one of your weaves is sliced.FS3 already has a defense built in - every attack rolls against the defender's defense skill. I'd probably just have a specific skill called 'Slice' and make defenses against weaves roll that. The lash-back effect would take a little bit of code, but I think you could just have a failed attack apply a -1 attack or defense (or both) mod for the next round with some ease.
Multi-flow weaves: Creating lighting requires strength in both Air and Fire (as I recall, and maybe Spirit too?). It gets even more complicated when you get to the idea that the requirements for the same weave may be different for male and female channelers.
This one is harder, but not impossible. Spirit Lake's magic is set up so that you learn a spell, and you have to have the spell's School in order to learn it. It could certainly be made to require that you have air && fire. That we haven't chosen to do so is more a matter of OOC system complexity than anything, honestly. That might be a thing to consider - is it worth it to be super faithful to the texts, if it results in a headache of a system, or can you simplify?
Of note, if you were doing it the SL way, you'd create weaves that do specific things (for us, spells), because you have to config/code them all. If you wanted things beyond those weaves, you'd need some rules for rolling and what those rolls mean.
Shielding duels: Just straight up channeling strength contests, straining to cut the other person off from the One Power (magic). If the other person isn't holding the One Power, it's easy, but if the other person -is- holding the One Power, it's relatively impossible unless you a) distract them, or b) are much, much stronger than them.
So again, FS3's attacks are contested rolls. A skill called 'Shielding' or 'Duel' or whatever is appropriate could just do this as-is. Actually, not even in combat - just do a vs roll. If they don't have the One Power, their stats would be super low. Or mod your rolls. Etc.
ETA: Or magic One Power - we made magic an attribute that governs our schools, you could do that as well and then just roll your raw power for these duels.
Severing (hey look, I've thought of more!): It's Shielding with an edge (literally). If you succeed, you cut the other person off from the One Power forever (for certain definitions of "forever").
Same as above, but with GM intervention to adjust skills as needed on the result of the rolls. Though @faraday generally holds that FS3 isn't built for PvP, so that's a thing to keep in mind.
Overchanneling: Channel too much and you'll get really, really tired. Channel even more, and you might burn yourself out and make yourself unable to use the One Power ever again (for certain definitions of "ever again").
We have a mechanic like this in SL, but it's more RP flavor than something accounted for. That said, it would be pretty easy to add in a counter that ticks up every time you cast/weave something, and ticks back down on a cron, and if you hit a certain level it tells you 'you don't feel so good' and/or creates a job/sends a mail. The primary difficulty here is when IC time doesn't like up with RL time (like you've paused a scene, or fast forward a scene), so you'd want a way to set things manually, too.
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One issue is that FS has each 'attack' keyed against a specific defense roll/skill but there should probably be multiple ways to defend against a lot of stuff.
If somebody chucks a fireball at you then you can try to cut the weave to mitigate it entirely, or block it with a shield of air, or if you are not a channeler you might be able to dodge it? Though mostly you get burninated.
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@Packrat said in Wheel of Time:
One issue is that FS has each 'attack' keyed against a specific defense roll/skill but there should probably be multiple ways to defend against a lot of stuff.
If somebody chucks a fireball at you then you can try to cut the weave to mitigate it entirely, or block it with a shield of air, or if you are not a channeler you might be able to dodge it? Though mostly you get burninated.
Yeah, good point. And it's based primarily on the weapon, not the person. You'd have to think about how to deal with this.
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@Packrat said in Wheel of Time:
One issue is that FS has each 'attack' keyed against a specific defense roll/skill but there should probably be multiple ways to defend against a lot of stuff.
That's no longer true in 3rd edition. Defense skill is determined by an algorithm, so via custom code you could make that method as complicated as you needed it to be.
The standard version is keyed off weapon type. Melee weapons defend with whatever weapon you're holding (so if you've got a sword in your hand you defend with sword skill), vehicles defend with piloting skill of your vehicle, and ranged weapons defend with whatever ability you configure as your basic defense skill.
You could (with modest effort) make different spells use different defenses depending on the person's magical school, their highest magic skill, their previous round's action, their stance, something they choose via a command, or whatever else you saw fit. Just depends how much effort you want to put into it.
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@Tat said in Wheel of Time:
Yeah, good point. And it's based primarily on the weapon, not the person. You'd have to think about how to deal with this.
If a particular kind of spell is considered a weapon, and is equipped before use, then you could have an appropriate skill keyed as defense.
You'd still only have one defense, though.
Edited to add: apparently, according to Faraday, I'm all wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.
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Hey, hi, hello.
Doing a small update to this thread as I slowly plow my way forward on this. I still need to finalize a list of key action skills and also figure out exactly HOW I want to handle things like channeling, talents, and if some sword forms should be implemented as 'stances' for combat. Like, if you wanna go super aggressive +5 attack, -5 defense, swap to Sheathing the Sword or something. Just a thought!
Anyway, I am working on a list of concepts, especially stuff that should be restricted or banned. And by banned, I mean things that are there for Reasons. Like no half-Aiel, or no Shadowspawn (sorry for people who were itching to make Trolloc PCs, haha). Also some really specific stuff, like if someone is playing an Aiel, then obviously that chracter would be completely averse to using a sword. Just stuff that makes sense in the context of the game world.
There's some other stuff, but I figure it would be interesting and fun to open up a wide variety of concepts. So if someone wants to be Aiel, sure. Or a Darkfriend/Black Ajah, which would be a dangerous concept to play, but the notion of coming back to the Light could be cool. Or just a temporary type of PC who subtly tries to cause problems.
If folks have ideas or anything that they wanna toss my way, feel free to put them here or hell, toss me a PM.
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@krmbm said in Wheel of Time:
The only hard part of not setting it after the books is how you allow for male channelers.
what is this FORCED DIVERSITY
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@Kanye-Qwest Yeah, if you want to set things pre books then guys just do not get to be channelers, or if they do? They are pariahs who rapidly turn dangerously insane.
Male characters get to be badass sword ninja guy flunkies to Aes Sedai if they want to be maximum personal power and still from what I recall hold most of the positions of political power and influence in the setting. At least outside of the Aes Sedai who probably consider everyone apart from them to exist at their sufferance and are not entirely wrong.
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@Kanye-Qwest said in Wheel of Time:
what is this FORCED DIVERSITY
I actually agree with you on this, big-time. Restricting Channelers to women and Warders to men is a-okay to me.
It was just that, the last time this conversation came up? People seemed to feel like this was a deal-breaker.
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Honestly, I don't see why the game needs male channelers. The setting is pretty specific, and the contrast between how a small segment of females wield awesome world-changing power (and are either revered or vilified - and always feared - for it) while much of the lower-rung society is male dominated is one of the more interesting aspects. Or course it's not universal - in Andor women seem pretty darn independent, and the sea folk are ruled by women.
I used to love the setting when I was younger. And though the world itself is still pretty awesome, occasionally Jordan's writing and characterization (especially of some of the female characters) was pretty cringe-worthy when I reread all the books in an adult age in preparation for the Sanderson conclusion.
Anyway, I'd certainly give a WoT game a gander.
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I'm also in the 'you don't need male channelers' camp. I'm a creature with girl parts IRL who's played plenty of men for setting-specific reasons. I like historical games but dislike playing overly against-tradition characters, and like actions roles, so my knights and soldiers were men-folk. Stretched me as an RPer in ways I think were positive. Folks who want a channeler can do the same, and it's not like there aren't plenty of boy roles in WoT.
ETA: I think a more defensible reason to set the game during the books (with no canon characters and possibly a different, NPC Dragon Reborn) or after them is that it's both more familiar to theoretical players and in theory quite dynamic if you're willing to play with the storyline and just make up your own shit off all that. It also makes Sea Folk, Aiel, and Seanchan a bit more playable.
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Honestly, the best/longest WoT game I played on stuck to the traditional roles.
I am pro-sticking with the female Aes Sedai and male Warders. Society full of lady mages, lessgo.