Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?

Derp

@bored said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

You're also by necessity devoting huge amounts of time to this person and that alone is a form of favoritism; people who are looking for NPC interaction to move their own plots along are not getting it in that time, and we know that time is precious in our aging hobby.

I am gonna disagree here. For two reasons.

Not every NPC is so integral to every player that people should be clamoring to see them. I had an NPC for ages, a low level drug dealer, that was important to a very small group. I played him for them. This has nothing to do with favoritism. It had everything to do with creating a specific, useful tool for the story.
Not every PC has an absolute right to interact with every other NPC. You might want to talk to the Councilor, but they might not want to talk to you. They have Provosts and shit for that sort of affair. Just because one PC gets access and another does not does not imply favoritism, no matter what the activity engaged in. It implies that NPCs are as selective with their time and access as any other person, and can be manipulated like any other in pursuit of their own agendas.

Sparks

@surreality said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

@Sparks One of the things with this that I think is quite relevant is that these are scenarios that are easy candidates for FTB.

I suspect that if these things were off-screen, or handled by rolls in an FTB, the issues would be negligible at best.

I can see a corner-case argument for the assassin scenario I described not being FTB, if they're planning to poison them in the throes of passion; playing it out it gives the PC a chance to spot what's happening in the poses and react. The NPC just rubbed that ring she's wearing across her lips? Sure, it could just be flavor—"I kiss the ring, and now I'll kiss you intimately"—but maybe the PC goes, "Wait... why? That was odd, and now I feel vaguely suspicious of this person..."

But yes, you could also probably just FTB and resolve it with rolls, too. And honestly, that would be my personal preference!

But I admit, I also am not the best judge of this scenario; I'm ace iRL, and the actual "place Part A into/against Part B, perform repetitive actions that make various organic noises and theoretically elicit physical pleasure" portion is as uninteresting to me online as it is in real life. I genuinely do not understand—on an emotional level—the people who consider a four-hour scene of things squishing together or being licked to be the end-game scenario they're aiming for, or some sort of perk/benefit to be aimed for.

bored

@Derp That's moving the goalposts a bit, isn't it?

Assume two people who have equal access/connection/whatever to an NPC (ie, two people in the 'small group' that interacted with your drug dealer). If you were spending 4 hours a night TSing one of them, there's zero chance that would take away from the others in that small group?

faraday

@Sparks said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

I'd also say the other defining trait is that the NPC does not get to be the protagonist. The story you're telling is not their story; they're not the hero who saves the day...the NPC doesn't get to be Luke Skywalker. They could be Obi-Wan Kenobi, however.

I agree with you in theory, but I think on a MUSH it gets murky because the traditional protagonist/antagonist breakdown doesn't really fit.

Even in TTRPGs, having NPCs with major roles helping the PCs can be problematic.
For instance, I could see Ben Kenobi or Gandalf being a super-irritating "GM's Pet PC Masquerading as a NPC" type of character in a TTRPG. They're more powerful, they step in and save the PCs from conflicts at times, etc.

Tinuviel

@faraday said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

Even in TTRPGs, having NPCs with major roles helping the PCs can be problematic.

Depends on the 'major role'. Elrond, or Mon Mothma would be grand NPCs. Gandalf and Kenobi would be good for lower-levelled characters to hang around with and/or die to prove just how serious the BBEG is, etc. They can be good, it's all in how they're used.

Kitty Kat

I've used 'Staff NPCs' before as plot or story characters, that is to say, these are characters I created expressly for a storyline, and only played them to help promote that storyline.

Unless you expressly make it clear they are Staff NPCs though, and like, label it in their finger/info etc. there is a strong likelihood that people might take an ill-view of it though; especially if said NPC is stronger than a regular character in anyway.

It's a good tool though, when not abused, or used for some of the above-mentioned examples.. like spending time TSing with favorites. XD

That said, I think before making any Staff NPC as a character bit, you need to really ask yourself if it could be accomplished by using your staff bit, and some emotes. ^.^

Derp

@bored said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

Assume two people who have equal access/connection/whatever to an NPC (ie, two people in the 'small group' that interacted with your drug dealer). If you were spending 4 hours a night TSing one of them, there's zero chance that would take away from the others in that small group?

I have no idea why anyone would spend four hours a night on TS, personally, but my larger point was that it doesn't really matter what the activity is. It's favoritism if you're actively denying someone with no barriers to the NPC access to them.

But is this ever really the case? We've been making proxy bits for years now. You can have two scenes going at once. More, even. Assuming that someone is getting four hours of sweet, sweet lovin'-text a night, how does that prevent you from also doing other things with them in another window? (Hey, the Han Solo bit is tied up in this other scene, mind if I grab this stormtrooper and just proxy?)

If a staffer is denying someone access to an NPC and there are otherwise no barriers to accessing that NPC, that's a bigger issue than favoritism, to me. That's dereliction of duty. But I don't think it's favoritism just because someone either doesn't get access to an NPC they might not have access to anyways or because one of them gets a lot of time (though I think s3xytime is a little weird...).

It really just isn't that cut and dry, and I think that just writing it off as favoritism is hasty because that might not be the case, and it could be an even bigger issue.

faraday

@Kitty-Kat said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

That said, I think before making any Staff NPC as a character bit, you need to really ask yourself if it could be accomplished by using your staff bit, and some emotes.

I tend to make my recurring NPCs as character objects, mainly because it's easier to pose them that way and I don't have to fix a bunch of logs where I accidentally said: "Faraday steps up to the podium..."

The character object is just a tool. It's how you use it that matters.

Tinuviel

@faraday said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

I tend to make my recurring NPCs as character objects, mainly because it's easier to pose them that way and I don't have to fix a bunch of logs where I accidentally said: "Faraday steps up to the podium..."

That's what you get for not emitting. Tsk, tsk.

Auspice

@faraday said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

@Kitty-Kat said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

That said, I think before making any Staff NPC as a character bit, you need to really ask yourself if it could be accomplished by using your staff bit, and some emotes.

I tend to make my recurring NPCs as character objects, mainly because it's easier to pose them that way and I don't have to fix a bunch of logs where I accidentally said: "Faraday steps up to the podium..."

The character object is just a tool. It's how you use it that matters.

It also, on platforms like Ares, gives a very convenient place to attach logs.

Derp

@Auspice said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

It also, on platforms like Ares, gives a very convenient place to attach logs.

I hear that on Ares you can have your PC in multiple scenes at once without the need to proxy things over, which is a point in its favor, and I think would resolve a LOT of issues around PC/NPC access.

Tinuviel

The difference between Staff PC vs NPC is always, for me, difficult to define. It's very much a Justice Stewart argument: I know it when I see it.

Auspice

@Derp said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

@Auspice said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

It also, on platforms like Ares, gives a very convenient place to attach logs.

I hear that on Ares you can have your PC in multiple scenes at once without the need to proxy things over, which is a point in its favor, and I think would resolve a LOT of issues around PC/NPC access.

You can so long as the others are via web portal.

Though you do miss an important factor of the multiple scene factor: some people can't handle multiple scenes at once.

Tinuviel

@Auspice said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

some people can't handle multiple scenes at once.

And some people don't appreciate people they're with being in multiple scenes.

Derp

@Tinuviel said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

And some people don't appreciate people they're with being in multiple scenes.

I suppose that there's really no polite way to say this, so -- too bad?

'You're with me, you have to just be with me and only me' is what you would expect from narcissistic creeper stalkers, not everyday RP partners.

Unless there is a game rule against it (which I think would be incredibly stupid and nigh unenforceable given the number of games out there), then people who 'don't appreciate people doing multiple scenes' can go fuck themselves.

@Auspice said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

Though you do miss an important factor of the multiple scene factor: some people can't handle multiple scenes at once.

My point was more that it was an option, not that it was mandatory. To put it another way, 'there is no excuse for a character with access to an NPC not getting time with said NPC when required because there are multiple tools that allow you to do so, and failing to do so is worse than favoritism, it's dereliction of duty'..

Auspice

@Tinuviel said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

@Auspice said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

some people can't handle multiple scenes at once.

And some people don't appreciate people they're with being in multiple scenes.

Deal with it

(actually I've never multi-scened when we RP)

Auspice

@Derp

Yeeeeah, but that sort of reads like (I mean really? 'dereliction of duty'?): if you staff and run NPCs then you absolutely must be willing to run multiple scenes at once or else you are a bad staffer and uh

Dude.

You're better than this.

Because there is no fucking way I am running a +event in one window and then multiple NPC scenes in other windows 'just because' the tools exist.

You know what doesn't exist? My mental capacity to do so.

Ghost

I might try to put an end to the "IC Relationship with NPC" argument, here.

Here we go.

I think that a player character (key word) having a relationship with a staff-run NPC is absolutely fine so long as the following requirements are met.

Players must submit a +job to staff to arrange scenes with NPC. Must state purpose of scene and if they want TS
Staff may assign whichever GM is available at the time to role play as the NPC. The player does not get to choose who roleplays as their "NPC lover", as all GMs have the same expectations of fairness. Theyre all deputized.
Head Staff are comfortable telling their GMs that they may be required to TS with people as a means of +job fulfillment.

Otherwise...itsafuckingPC.

Derp

@Auspice

No, no.

Ok. Let me try this again, since this doesn't seem to be doing the thing.

You are a staffer running an NPC. You have, for sake of argument, two people with regular access to this NPC. One person RPs with this NPC almost every night (because, I dunno, they're the PCs mentor or something).

You still need to make sure that you are giving screen time to the other person. The way that you do that is:

Either run multiple scenes,

-or-

Make sure that they are getting access to said NPC in another fashion.

If you aren't doing one of those things, and just cut the PC off from the NPC for no valid reason, then you are failing in your duties as the staffer running said NPC.

Auspice

@Derp said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

@Auspice

No, no.

Ok. Let me try this again, since this doesn't seem to be doing the thing.

You are a staffer running an NPC. You have, for sake of argument, two people with regular access to this NPC. One person RPs with this NPC almost every night (because, I dunno, they're the PCs mentor or something).

You still need to make sure that you are giving screen time to the other person. The way that you do that is:

Either run multiple scenes,

-or-

Make sure that they are getting access to said NPC in another fashion.

If you aren't doing one of those things, and just cut the PC off from the NPC for no valid reason, then you are failing in your duties as the staffer running said NPC.

Okay. Yes. We are in agreement on that.

It's just that your phrasing previously used seemed to imply that staffers should be required to multi-scene to give everyone the time they want and I am sort of heeeeeeell no on that idea.