May 14, 2020, 4:53 AM
Tips for not wearing out your welcome
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@A-B said in Tips for not wearing out your welcome:
I was not asked to leave, I was thrown out without warning. If you'd told me you wanted me to stop blethering, I could have stopped blethering.
This right here. You keep repeating this part that comes off angry. Everyone has answered. You are not owed an explanation. They gave one here. It is time for you to move on from this topic. You're getting answers just not the ones that work for your logic.
I work as an interventionist irl, this is the same thing I say to my high functioning Asperger's teens. Just because it's not the answer you're looking for doesn't mean it wasn't an answer. You just disagree and nothing wrong with disagreeing but there is a time to let it go. Good luck finding another game.
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@A-B said in Tips for not wearing out your welcome:
I am doing my best about those things. It's just a question of not going completely insane from isolation in the meantime.
If I may ask a question, why have you chosen online text-based games as a way to stave off insanity from your isolation?
This is a serious question because, in my experience, online text-based games can generate as much insanity as it may ameliorate.
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@A-B It's sounding like there are a lot of concerns and complications for you about this endeavor.
Time zone issues are tough, but on a large enough game you may be able to find a decent crew of US nightowls or early risers. The problem with this is that large games are not at all common, and the number of them seems to be shrinking steadily year by year. RPIs apparently trend larger, so if you're looking into that, you may have better luck there also.
This is likely going to sound harsher than I intend, but it's something I feel needs to be made abundantly clear. I have major social anxiety, general anxiety, and long term major depression, so I'm not speaking in a cavalier way about something I don't understand, or don't have long term personal experience coping with.
What you seem to be seeking from whatever game you ultimately find is not going to be the answer. In a normal phase of human history, you would be very lucky to find a game that satisfies the need for interaction brought on by isolation. It is nor the responsibility of any game on the internet to provide the emotional support and resources, or an alternative, to prevent or change social isolation.
There's a lot to this, because while you may not be expecting a new cadre of besties or someone to play emotional support lifeline or counselor, you have: repeatedly outlined things you feel staff should have done based on your emotional needs and isolation; repeatedly claimed they should have overlooked, excused, or forgiven based on these things. These things are also not OK.
You ask for empathy and forgiveness, you don't ask for a free pass and insist they did it all wrong and it's so unfair based on your circumstances, you do not ask them to make special rules or change their existing rules or practices to suit you, and while you have done so politely in my estimation through this thread, you have done this consistently.
That is not how this works.
It is especially not how it works in this period of worldwide WTF. People who have zero experience with isolation are already struggling, and I have a genuine non-snark concern that if you talk about how you're in one of these spaces to escape RL isolation and expect some indulgence on the part of staff or other players because of a combination of anxiety and isolation, you are going to get sledgehammered by people screaming, "Join the fucking club!" as it is something the vast majority are dealing with.
The only people I know of who are NOT dealing with it are even worse off, stocking shelves or in the health field, at major risk and subject to incredible if not outright insane circumstances. Plenty of them are right here in the hobby, and like all of us who are in various shades of lockdown, they're trying to engage in a little fun escapism in the tiny scraps of time life affords them to do so.
Everyone's nerves are fried, and Gany put it far better than I could: these games have their own low thrum of steady stress. It is considerably worse right now. Looking for relief from isolation on these games is something that seems like common sense in a lockdown -- temporary or as a part of normal life for any given person -- but it isn't the easy solution it may seem, and that's in a normal time. You're less likely, right now, to get the kind of empathy and understanding you seem to be looking for because everyone's so stressed and screwed.
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@surreality said in Tips for not wearing out your welcome:
People who have zero experience with isolation are already struggling, and I have a genuine non-snark concern that if you talk about how you're in one of these spaces to escape RL isolation and expect some indulgence on the part of staff or other players because of a combination of anxiety and isolation, you are going to get sledgehammered by people screaming, "Join the fucking club!" as it is something the vast majority are dealing with.
With all due respect I suspect you and most others on this forum have absolutely no concept for how far isolation can go and it comes across as incredibly shallow to compare a few months of reduced contact with your friends with the kind of multi-decade long stretches of time some people on the spectrum isolate themselves from most human contact.
What is obvious to you may not be obvious to me and vice versa.
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@Groth In a normal period of time? I leave my house about once or twice a month, typically for medical appointments. I talk to precisely three people online -- barely ever. In person or on the phone, only my husband and parents. My husband works out of state for the majority of the week. We do one trip annually, through which I spend the entire time freaking out. That's been 'the norm' for roughly a decade.
I actually know exactly what I'm talking about, but nice job trying to tell me you know my circumstances better than I do.
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@Groth And another fucking thing, because now I'm pissed: read it again.
The very quote you cite addresses exactly what you're talking about: people who are not accustomed to this circumstance are unlikely to react with empathy and will instead do more damage.
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None of these games have any responsibility to be anything except what they claim to be: games. They're a place to go play. They aren't therapy, a counter to isolation, or a replacement for a social life. They have no responsibility to support / engage people who cannot follow the rules. Being able to follow the rules is a requirement for existing in these spaces, and if you can't -- regardless of why you can't -- you shouldn't come in.
It's unfortunate if your particular circumstance truly prevents you from treating other people with respect and behaving to the minimal fucking standards most of these games have, but you cannot expect them to let you piss all over everything just because you can't control your bladder. I would feel VERY badly for somebody who is incapable of controlling their bladder, but if they wanted to come in my house they would have to wear a diaper, stay on the porch, or not drink before they came to visit me. I can't accommodate that like their doctor might be able to, I don't have the professional cleaning supplies on hand, and all my stuff is cloth. It SUCKS, yes, absolutely. It's STILL unreasonable to expect that kind of accomodation in this environment. They can't help you (they're literally incapable), and you shouldn't expect them to.
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@surreality said in Tips for not wearing out your welcome:
@Groth In a normal period of time? I leave my house about once or twice a month, typically for medical appointments. I talk to precisely three people online -- barely ever. In person or on the phone, only my husband and parents. My husband works out of state for the majority of the week. We do one trip annually, through which I spend the entire time freaking out. That's been 'the norm' for roughly a decade.
I actually know exactly what I'm talking about, but nice job trying to tell me you know my circumstances better than I do.
Then why invite the comparison or give it a veil or legitimacy? You should be well aware of the fact that what the 'vast majority' are dealing with isn't remotely the same. It's like insinuating that stubbing your toe means you don't need to show any empathy to someone born without a leg.
While there are people out there that will act like that, it's shitty behavior and we should call it out as shitty. It's straight up mocking someone for their disability.
What is obvious to you may not be obvious to me and vice versa.
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That was literally her point.
ETA: People will not provide the empathy/understanding right now that they usually would because they think their few months social isolation is exactly the same. THAT IS WHAT SHE SAID.
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@A-B said in Tips for not wearing out your welcome:
I would like to know what else but an angry tone somebody can respond in who has been, in their honest opinion, unfairly banned from a game, and then taken to task in front of a lot of strangers for trying to appeal and even apologise (you didn't see the private message I sent Tat). Believe me, I have been making a big effort to tone it down as much as I can.
It sucks, but it's kind of like being in a mud pit, or quicksand. If you thrash and fight, you're just going to sink. But if you just calmly extract yourself, you can walk away. And it may hurt for a bit to leave friends behind--especially if you can't contact them! But you'll make new friends if you just learn from the experience and try to grow better for having learned something. Shouting never changed anyone's mind, but taking the lesson to heart can.
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@Groth Are you seriously trying to... <just stares at the screen>
AND EVEN SO. Now I will.
Know what? There are studies on this shit. There are warnings all over the press about how people who aren't accustomed to this are also actually suffering, even if their circumstances are temporary. They are also sudden, traumatic, against their will, and outside their control.
They may be suffering in a different way, but it does not minimize or remove their suffering.
If someone is talking about 'isolation' and 'anxiety', those things? Apply to all variants.
For some people, 'talking to your friends for a couple months' is their difference between life and death, mental health or major depression. Is this mentally healthy? Nope, but plenty of people base far too much of their identity on this sort of thing, and some are genuinely tailspinning because of the abrupt change. That is real.
For some people, 'can get out of the house' is the difference between 'I have to stay home and be beaten by an abusive partner' and 'I can get away to a safe place when I see the warning signs'. I shouldn't have to lay out why this is a problem. Domestic violence is up on a curve that is utterly terrifying.
There are endless permutations of this and all of them are real. I would ask you, how dare you delegitimize the suffering those people are going through?
Because none of this exists in a vacuum. None of it is a competition. Suffering and mental health challenges can come from different sources and causes, but that makes them no less real. 'Bob's suffering is worse than Jane's' doesn't mean Jane's becomes irrelevant; maybe you should stop talking like that should be the special case here.
People speak from their own personal experience, like I did. Which you promptly tried to mansplain the shit out of, telling me what my actual life is like, as though you know it better than I do. That is some dire bullshit, right there.
ETA: Sunny nailed it.
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@surreality said in Tips for not wearing out your welcome:
There are endless permutations of this and all of them are real. I would ask you, how dare you delegitimize the suffering those people are going through?
Suffering doesn't make it any more appropriate to make fun of disabilities. Suffering doesn't make the comparison any more valid. I'm not delegitimizing their suffering, I'm saying it's not comparable because it should not and can not be compared and I'm not going to indulge it being used an excuse to mock the disabled.
What is obvious to you may not be obvious to me and vice versa.
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@Groth said in Tips for not wearing out your welcome:
@surreality said in Tips for not wearing out your welcome:
There are endless permutations of this and all of them are real. I would ask you, how dare you delegitimize the suffering those people are going through?
Suffering doesn't make it any more appropriate to make fun of disabilities. Suffering doesn't make the comparison any more valid. I'm not delegitimizing their suffering, I'm saying it's not comparable because it should not and can not be compared and I'm not going to indulge it being used an excuse to mock the disabled.
Absolutely no one is making fun of anyone for having disabilities. What you initially quoted in no way is an example of making fun of someone for having a disability.
It is an example of people assuming 'same shit, different day' to their own experience and not providing emotional support or empathy.
Having emotional support and empathy (edit to correct: NOT freely) provided to you by complete strangers who are in no way being hired for this purpose and in fact are present to unwind and enjoy themselves playing make-believe is also not making fun of someone for having a disability.
They are also in no way obligated to provide emotional support and empathy in that space, because that is not the purpose of that space.
People not having the reserves they normally might to indulge this -- and make no mistake, it is indulging, it is NOT an obligation -- because of current circumstances? Is real. It is happening. The likelihood for someone to engage is lower than normal because of what's going on in the world and how many people it impacts. I am boggled by how you can't understand this; it is incredibly obvious and simple.
You are completely off the rails with this notion that anyone is making fun of the disabled, supporting people to mock the disabled, or encouraging people to mock the disabled.
You are, in fact, delegitimizing their suffering. In your own words.
@Groth said in Tips for not wearing out your welcome:
why invite the comparison or give it a veil or legitimacy?
It is legitimate suffering, that's why. It doesn't need a veil.
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https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/lifting-the-veil-trauma/202003/trauma-pandemic-proportions
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/daily-life-coping/managing-stress-anxiety.html
Some reading.
ETA: This trauma is very, very, very real. If the worst physical pain you have ever felt in your life is a hangnail, your brain interprets it as VERY BAD OH GOD THIS IS TERRIBLE. This is literally how human brains work.
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@A-B said in Tips for not wearing out your welcome:
Not in position to or would.
Here. Work through this workbook. You are in dire need of distress tolerance skills, emotional regulation skills and interpersonal effectiveness skills.
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@surreality said in Tips for not wearing out your welcome:
Absolutely no one is making fun of anyone for having disabilities. What you initially quoted in no way is an example of making fun of someone for having a disability.
@surreality said
"Join the fucking club!"As fascinating it is to watch people on this forum keep inventing excuses to not care about people on the spectrum it grows rather tiresome. I'm not asking you to be an unpaid online psychologist, I'm merely asking you to avoid comparing a lifelong disability to temporary social distancing. I'm asking you to not encourage making light of a condition someone was born with and has to deal with for their entire life.
What is obvious to you may not be obvious to me and vice versa.
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Not having the skills or ability or capacity to deal with something isn't the same as not caring about another human being.
"Join the club" is not mocking; it's a frustrated expression of 'yes I am feeling that way, too'.
ETA: I live with fairly severe PTSD. I am living nigh-constantly in a triggered state right now due to the pandemic. This is no one in the mush world's responsibility to deal with besides me. Nobody. If I lose my shit on a public channel, staff in any given place has to deal with the actual thing that I actually did even if I did it because I was literally triggered. This is why I am staying offline the vast majority of the time right now. I can't ensure I behave myself most of the time because of the psychological impacts of this pandemic on my pre-existing condition.
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My own story:
Before I did a few years of intensive trauma therapy, I was a lot like OP. There are a few people who won't play with me because of my behavior back then, and I don't blame them. I was a fucking shitshow.
However, I'm proof that with work, someone can become a whole lot less of a shitshow and become someone people enjoy playing with and like having around. Yes, I am also on the spectrum, as well as having C-PTSD. I promise, it can get better with hard work and appropriate medication and you'll feel better and others will enjoy having you around, too.
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I like having you around.
