Diversity Representation in MU*ing

[Tinuviel]

@egg said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:

So people are choosing a whitewashed reality in this case.

I think you're attributing malice where it isn't warranted.

[egg]

Not malice. Just apathy/ignorance.

[Jeshin]

@egg

If blue eyes are rare, than aren't people picking something in the minority?

[surreality]

I think it's hard to pin down real demographics in a visually anonymous medium.

Some games, people are all up in everyone else's RL business and know these things -- most common on smaller games with a small number of people who know each other fairly well or interact often.

Some people would rather not share this information, period.

Some folks don't engage OOC at all if they can help it, here, on the game, on discords, etc.

And MSB represents a small number of people in the broader MU hobby, even if it's 'just MUSH/MUX/Evennia/Ares games' and not RPIs and MUDs.

Plenty of people on various games I've been on assume I'm male -- mostly the adult games, and the reason cited is typically, 'but women are all subs and enjoy humiliation!' Uhm, no, darlin', no. (If I heard about how I was definitely a dude playing women one more time because I didn't giggle or smile enough, I might have broken a knuckle on the monitor.)

I've guessed at unknowns and been wrong plenty. People have done it to me. So I'm really reluctant to make assumptions here about the over all makeup of the hobby.

I think -- as Generic White Girl #367, so apply however many grains of salt you feel appropriate -- we're better off, if we want to improve things, assuming people of all races/religions/genders/etc. are present in the hobby, and we should consider their comfort levels as the default.

Being a healthy, inclusive space is the best invitation and advertisement.

[Tinuviel]

@egg said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:

Not malice. Just apathy/ignorance.

Okay, well you're attributing that where it isn't warranted. Playing a white character doesn't mean people are apathetic to anything, it means they want to play a white character.

[Auspice]

tbh, I often play chars with blue or green eyes because I got made fun of/mocked/insulted so much in childhood for having brown eyes.

Are brown eyes the most common? Yes. I don't know why I got made fun of so much for it, but it was on the list of things I got bullied for.

So part of my fantasy/escapism play is getting to pretend I don't have brown eyes. #sorrynotsorry

[surreality]

...awkward thought: my most recent PoC PB has blue/grey/green eyes (depends on the photo; she's Jamaican/Irish). But, uh. That doesn't make her a generic white girl last I checked?

See this is where I'm like: <throws hands in the air> . o O ( ...is this something I should be ashamed about that offended someone? )

[egg]

@Jeshin Do you not think our culture idealizes blue eyes as a fancy something only certain white people can have? If you don't believe me, watch anything on TV that doesn't have a majority-POC cast. You will find an equally disproportionate amount of blue eyes, and not because someone is trying to represent some invisible blue-eyed minority.

[Tinuviel]

People find blue eyes appealing. So they want to play someone they find appealing.

So fuckin' what?

[Jeshin]

What is the point of a safe space, inclusive, making people feel comfortably if shaming people for their eye color is par for the course?

As long as people aren't going gasp you're the ONLY poc on the game or GASP you're so exotic and sexy with your shade of X skin than what more are we expecting?

EDIT - @egg what about scifi shows where blue eyes mean you've been infected with the proto molecule and you're about to become blue paste and destroy the universe?

[egg]

I'm not shaming anyone here, just asking you to take a step back and think about things differently for a moment. For example: why do people love blue eyes? Is it just because they're pretty?

[Jeshin]

@egg

Tropes
Stereotypes
Something they aren't
Something they wish they had
Something they like

There's more reasons for someone to pick blue eyes that have no racial component than do.

[Tinuviel]

@egg said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:

why do people love blue eyes? Is it just because they're pretty?

Because they do. That's literally all the reason anyone should need to play any kind of character they want, barring the socially and morally unacceptable ones.

You can't make people interested in something, in a casual hobby setting, they aren't interested in by demanding they think about it real hard. Why do I want to play a white person? Because I'm a white person, and it's easy. Could I play a straight Puerto Rican woman with aspirations to become a neurosurgeon? Sure. It'd be fuckin' boring for me, though, because that's not what I want.

I'm here to entertain myself and enjoy my time, not fill a quota.

[Groth]

Generally unless they're seeking to challenge themselves, I would expect most people to play what they're comfortable with which I would expect would tend towards what they know. I also suspect that Mushers are overwhelmingly white because PC gaming in general is overwhelmingly white.

Should people challenge themselves more and make more of an attempt to portray other cultures? Maybe, it's one of the advantages of role-playing. Primarily though this hobby is about having fun and I don't think there's anything wrong with people sticking with what they like.

[Kanye Qwest]

@Waller said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:

One of the many issues in diversity in MU*ing is the setting.

Here's a WoD/CoD example:

Yes, there are Black people in New England, but when every single game is set in Small New England Town, New England State, it is a reach to figure out why my Black Vampire/Mage/Changeling/Werewolf is in this area. Everyone has to come up with reasons, and I have. But knowing that realistically my character would, at the very least, stick out in a crowd, makes upholding that IC Masquerade difficult in Small New England Town.

Sure, put your game in a place that you want. But when you look at the character roster and it looks like the campus of BYU...maybe it's your setting.

Here's what gets me about this: those small New England towns will have a ridiculously disproportionate number of strip clubs, opera houses, billionaires, east asian people, etc etc. So the realism is blown from the start - there are vampires and werewolves. The plausibility is blown by what I just mentioned. There's no town of 10,000 in the entire US with like, fifteen bars and strip clubs and bookstores and boutique shopping centers.

@egg blue eyes are coveted because they are rare. Just like being 'the tallest' is coveted because it is rare (and generally accepted to be attractive, most people don't covet rare things that are NOT.)

[Three-Eyed Crow]

@surreality said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:

...awkward thought: my most recent PoC PB has blue/grey/green eyes (depends on the photo; she's Jamaican/Irish). But, uh. That doesn't make her a generic white girl last I checked?

Ha, one of mine was, too, awhile back, because I'd really liked Michael Ealy in "Almost Human" and wanted to use him somewhere. What this says about me idk (PSA: "Stumptown" is a gr8 show if you're into PI antics). I get that this is probably SUPER tangential to what @egg is talking about, though I think they're right about the preference in US media in general for light eyes and it's interesting to think about. I definitely think there's an aspect of "playing the unique thing" in the same way red hair is popular, though there are probs also coded levels to it.

[Tinuviel]

@Groth said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:

Should people challenge themselves more and make more of an attempt to portray other cultures?

We do that, plenty. By playing in fictional settings with their own cultures.

Is gaming a good way to explore things you can't in your reality? Absolutely. Would I trust any random Tom, Jane, or Ashley to explore that with me on a MU? Christ no.

[surreality]

@Groth ...and to add to this, 'if you're not sure you can do so convincingly in a given situation, you don't want to offend or hurt someone that way'.

[Kanye Qwest]

@Tinuviel said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:

@Groth said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:

Should people challenge themselves more and make more of an attempt to portray other cultures?

We do that, plenty. By playing in fictional settings with their own cultures.

Is gaming a good way to explore things you can't in your reality? Absolutely. Would I trust any random Tom, Jane, or Ashley to explore that with me on a MU? Christ no.

wow excuse you i am very trustworthy

[Tinuviel]

@Kanye-Qwest said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:

@Tinuviel said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:

@Groth said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:

Should people challenge themselves more and make more of an attempt to portray other cultures?

We do that, plenty. By playing in fictional settings with their own cultures.

Is gaming a good way to explore things you can't in your reality? Absolutely. Would I trust any random Tom, Jane, or Ashley to explore that with me on a MU? Christ no.

wow excuse you i am very trustworthy

I'd probably be exceptionally trusting with you regarding certain things I could explore. But I know the online you, at least more than I do the average bumfuck MUer.

ETA: This sounded more like a clumsy pickup line at a BDSM club than how I intended...