Diversity Representation in MU*ing

[Caractus]

@L-B-Heuschkel said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:

See, as I recall being on the game that Jinshei banned a black character from, it's worth noticing that said black character was banned because it managed to hit every porn trope on the register. Every single one. Not one player was in any doubt that this was a character designed to rile people up and make them uncomfortable. Several players complained about it being horribly racist even before it got on grid (if it ever did).

Now, it's entirely possible that this was another black character, and if that is the case, please ignore and move on.

But if it was -- and you genuinely sought to app a black character who would have embarrassed Pornhub's cuck porn section... Then yes, maybe the problem is not only with the games you app on.

I think the problem lies with people taking issue with one sexualization in a sea of smoldering blue - eyed white twinks and large breasted Seductive Noblewomen.

I digress.

You seemed to take well enough to the old man at first glance.

That said, are we going to pretend no Mu* charbit has ever, ever been designed with sex appeal? The optics of suddenly taking issue with a character that presents the wrong sort of sex appeal, instead of merely getting on with one's life, seems
.. Odd.

[Caractus]

@Roz said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:

@Caractus I certainly think the app speaks for itself.

It doesn't really illuminate the hidden rule of banning people who display a perfect compliance with directives to amend their characters, however.

[L. B. Heuschkel]

@Caractus I took well to the character concept as it was presented to me -- a rambunctious, lecherous old guy from Djelibeybi. I'm not going to pretend I didn't backpedal with the speed of a thousand cheetahs the more I realised what you were doing.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to play a sex game. But I think you may have to look at what games you are apping to. If their theme is not sexual in nature, then that character is going to come across as -- very off theme at best. Discworld is somewhat Eurocentric,not going to disagree with you there -- but sex themed it is not. Trying to turn this into a matter of 'they hated black people' is a strawman. The issue was not the colour of the character's skin. The issue was the aggressive sexuality that made several other players highly uncomfortable.

[Caractus]

It worries me that you automatically assume I am incapable of nonsexual RP.

Imagine fixing your entire mouth to say that to one of the well-endowed white female characters who regularly exhibit their boobs, breasting boobily about in their palaces, and such.

You would be excoriated and reviled for casting vile aspersions on an innocent baby girl, despite her obvious sexual overtures.

[L. B. Heuschkel]

@Caractus If the game was still up I'd ask you to go point at one such character on it. You were not the only person whose overtly sexual app was rejected.

[Caractus]

@L-B-Heuschkel said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:

@Caractus If the game was still up I'd ask you to go point at one such character on it. You were not the only person whose overtly sexual app was rejected.

Anyway, the margin for error is virtually invisible if you try to app a black charbit on a great deal of games,
which has been quite solidly demonstrated here.

You can get banned on preassumed wrongdoing. Precrime, as in Minority Report: your appearance alone is justification enough.

Compliance with wiz requests gets you sitebanned, assumptions of malicious intent are common currency, yada yada.

I'm not saying y'all actively discourage people from being anything other than white, but it could be construed in that manner, and would be applicable to the original post in this thread asking why most games are seas of mayonnaise as far as the eye can see.

[L. B. Heuschkel]

There's no 'yall. I was not staff, as you are very well aware. I agree 100% with staff's decision to reject sexually overt chars that look like they're designed solely to write porn on a game that is decidedly not sexual in theme. Hold the strawmen, app on games that are sexual in theme -- as you've pointed out yourself, they exist and apps like this are welcome on them.

No matter what one's taste is, not all games are inclusive to all players and play styles. I've visited a number of games where my apps were denied for various reasons that I agreed or did not agree with. That's how it works. You either adjust to the theme if you want it enough -- or you move on to another game that's more in tune with what you want. If you can't convince staff that your app is legit then it's probably not a game you want to play on anyway.

It's a big sea, there are plenty of fish. Over 'n out.

[silverfox]

Okay, what is TERF? I kept hoping it would be explained but it wasn't. Also, I am afraid to google it because heaven only knows what I'll find.

[L. B. Heuschkel]

@silverfox said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:

Okay, what is TERF? I kept hoping it would be explained but it wasn't. Also, I am afraid to google it because heaven only knows what I'll find.

Trans Exclusive Radical Feminist. I.e., feminists who do not believe that trans women are women.

[Roz]

@silverfox It's safe to Google, FWIW. If you're worried about random porn or sexual search results or something.

[silverfox]

@Roz That is 100% what I was worried about, ty.

[Auspice]

I regret clicking that link to the -- thankfully denied -- Arx character.

Pretty sure this is the sort of thing people mean when they reference (mild or overt or straight up racist) stereotypes making POC on games look bad.

Also: I doubt this is Cirno. Cirno likes to app unthemeatic (for non racial reasons) women.

To be frank, that vague whiny 'people don't like to pretend anymore' post in gripes made me think this was our usual troll because that dude likes to make posts like that to bait people into conversation. If it is, the fact that he's apping on games is a new twist. The fact that the characters in question are racist depictions would be no surprise though.

[Ganymede]

Just a reminder: this is not a thread to discuss a particular game. This thread exists to discuss diversity representation on games.

I have the feeling that this discussion is done to death at this point, but there are some questions about terms used, such as TERF. So I’m going to leave it open for now.

Please keep things on target. And please do not make me work and do my job.

[Arkandel]

I had to read this thread.

Well, the last couple of days' worth of posts.

[Kestrel]

Can someone please ban @Caractus already

I put myself through reading his Arx app and no one should ever have to put themselves through reading anything this lying, racist POS writes ever, honestly.

You're as black as I'm turquoise.

[Meg]

@Caractus said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:

@Roz

Yes, I offered to amend that. Funny story, really, I just copypasted that chap's desc from another game and failed to make it PG enough.

Also a quote by you:

Arx is supposedly nice but I soured on being enthusiastic after the staff sent my black charbit back to chargen 3 times and then just banned me without further ceremony.

[Kestrel]

I mean, the issue really isn't that it's just an overly sexual description of a normal black person.

It includes choice lines such as, 'His base cunning makes him a good household servant.'

[silverfox]

Wow. Just... wow.

Okay. Since this thread is my fault (@Ganymede #sorrynotsorry cat bot- I am wondering a little bit if the convo about that holy shit wtf character should get moved over to the Arx peeve thread(s)), lemme see if I can steer it a little.

This question takes a few caveats. So to begin with them:

1. These questions do not relate specifically to ANY game. Please respond with generalities that could fit MOST games.
2. These questions are divorced from plot related reasons (aka, Arx not allowing Asian concepts because they are over there and don't have contact with atm, yes, I could be wrong, please correct me via PM, that's not what this thread is about).
3. These questions are divorced from games that put limitations on groups to keep them from being over-represented in their particular sphere. (I can't think of a race example here, but like Gray Harbor had concepts they limited or didn't allow because they were overplayed.)

With that said! The QUESTIONS:

What minority groups don't have particularly good representation on Mu*s right now?

What are the barriers that keep them from being represented?

When you think of representation is it an IC (the characters we app/desc/play) or OOC (the actual ethnicity/sexual orientation/(insert other minority groups here) question? (Aka, should we have more characters of color or should we as a group be actively trying to advertise to diversify our playerbase?)

What are some typical stereotypes of that particular group that you have seen, and what are some resources we can use to combat those stereotypes if we choose to app a character in that subgroup?

[Meg]

I don't think pointing out what exactly the app was is not important, if someone is going to come in and start dropping the idea that certain games are just banning black characters straight up. He mentioned two different games.

So sure, move the conversation. But I'd also move the strawmen posts from him about games banning black characters too, then. Unless someone can come in and give more pertinent testimony of that happening.

[silverfox]

Wow, so, somehow I missed a majority of the conversation related to that particular banned character, I'd only seen what was on this particular page. My bad on that.

I still think it's worth moving the conversation back to the topic of the thread and letting that particular topic go be it's own, because I don't see anyone reading that character linked and finding it not offensive.