The Desired Experience

[Devrex]

I've been thinking a lot about the desired experience of players on a game, or the overarching fantasies of players, and how there can be a mismatch between the experience or fantasy on offer and what the players are looking for. And how I've spent a long time assuming almost everyone shared my desired experience when, in fact, I now think that is not the case.

For example, my desired experience can best be summed up as action hero/hard boiled detective, the Fundamentally Kind Person Who Lives By His Wits, Occasionally Fires a Gun or Throws a Punch, and Solves Impactful Problems while being a great friend and falling in love along the way. All like MacGyver, Daredevil, John McClane, Alan Wake, and Alex Cross type of stuff. I like social stuff to build the stakes and for character development between bomb disarmaments and hostage negotiations and bad guy punching but mostly I want to RP solving mysteries and problems and defeating bad things. I design my characters to try to snag these experiences.

There are other things I like that sort of overlap with these core things, but I get frustrated when a) there is no ability to do those sorts of things in evidence anywhere on a game; or, b) I'm out there STing them for everyone else but can't seem to get them for myself; or, c) I'm out there offering like crazy this thing I'd really like to get for myself and players are still like "Meh," or even getting mad because they're not getting the experience they want.

In the past I've been baffled thinking: what the hell, I'm peddling just as past as I can peddle to give you this great RP!

Recently it's hit me:

Well, Devrex, moron, you may be peddling the experience YOU want but not the one THEY want and that might be the problem.

Yes it took me 26 years to figure out that people might want different things than I want when they play an RPG; I'm real slow that way.

So the question is:

What is your desired experience when you get onto a MU*? What do you do this for? What kind of book or movie are you trying to step into there? I'm hoping this will, when I return to it, make me a better ST/gamerunner and maybe expand the types of experiences I currently know how to offer at all (I do know how to offer some that fall outside of the circle of what I go for, but not, I think, as many as I would like to know how to offer...I suspect I haven't even identified a lot of the possibilities).

I don't imagine I'll be able to grok every single one of them but it would also just be nice to know what gets people back to their keyboards every night.

[Pyrephox]

This is a very good question, because I run into a lot of that same sort of frustration and the tip over between that frustration and the fun I do have is often what leads to me quietly exiting a MU*.

The experience I want varies to some degree by the game and its theme, but generally what I'm looking for is:

• A cinematic experience, with moments of high action, high drama, or high stakes.
• An experience where I feel my character has the potential to meaningfully contribute to the plot of the game - this doesn't mean to SUCCEED all the time, because constant success ends up not feeling earned or meaningful. But mysteries that fundamentally unsolvable (not just HARD to solve) frustrate me, /if/ they're core to the game experience. If they're not, then that's fine - I'm totally okay with "this problem of the game world is thematically fundamental and won't change" as long as there aren't a whole lot of plots about trying to change it and failing.
• An experience that is cooperative OOC and often fraught with conflict IC. I want to experience 'big' events and big conflicts in a game - I'm not particularly interested in games that have no room for characters to clash. But I also get frustrated when people immediately take IC conflict to an OOC place, and try to manipulate or punish people OOC for IC events.
• Finally, I want to enjoy the people I play with on an OOC level. We don't have to be best friends forevers, or anything, but I'm not really interested in an 'IC-only' environment where people don't chat OOC. RPGs are, for me, fundamentally a social endeavor and a game where people don't chat OOC or seem to enjoy each other's company at least a little is...empty, for me.

[Arkandel]

One of the fundamental issues with MU*ing has to do with getting everyone on the same page. In short - it's impossible.

People want different experiences. They have different levels of familiarity with the source material and are after different things. Their expectations, thus, are also different.

Take a Lord of the Rings setting. I might go in as a big Tolkien nerd and expect something beautiful and lyrical. Others might see it as a D&D adventure; they want to slice and dice some Orcs. For some it might be that they want it to be more L&L, play some politics, see if Gondor will finally atone for Westfold.

This isn't made any easier for the fact there isn't just one Storyteller/GM/DM around but several and they will also offer different points of view based on their own preferences.

In my opinion the true answer is this: For small sub-groups of people there is potential for such a thing as a shared desired experience. For larger groups expectations need to be managed and compromises made.

In other words - I'd advise folks to find and surround themselves with people who want about the same stuff they do as much as possible. When they venture outside of that circle though their results may vary - sometimes pleasantly.

[Pyrephox]

@arkandel I think another thing that games can do is be more explicit about the experience they want to provide. Like, so often I've seen characters be approved in a game where the character is clearly built for a specific experience - only for the game runners to turn around and be either indifferent or actively hostile to that experience.

In which case, they shouldn't approve the character. It's okay to say no to applications that don't fit what you're looking for. It's okay to state upfront that, hey, the theme of this game is adventure pulp and action, and we're not interested in digging very deep into the metaphysics of the setting or exploring the way X works, so characters built around that will not be approved.

It's impossible to get EVERYONE on the same page: some people are always going to want to play a Pokemon. But we can do a better job of communicating that we often do. Lessen the issue, if not eliminate it.

[MisterBoring]

@arkandel said in The Desired Experience:

One of the fundamental issues with MU*ing has to do with getting everyone on the same page. In short - it's impossible.

I agree, and I think one of the biggest things you can do to work around this is to find where everyone's pages overlap, and work to make those bits stand out. You might not be hitting everything for any single person, but you're tagging enough pieces of stuff that people do like that everyone is getting something out of it.

Just my opinion, of course.

[Devrex]

@pyrephox Yeah this is exactly why I started thinking about this, because in the past I have been very "I dunno, if you wanna play it and have points for that go to town I guess" and then have been quietly baffled when someone has made, say, a shopkeeper.

And then the shopkeeper is going: "I can't get any RP around here."

And I'm thinking: What the hell do you expect? Nobody's taking your shopkeeper to the Dungeon o' Doom...why'd you even make a shopkeeper? You're free to make a shopkeeper but why wouldja do it???

It's only now dawning on me that the shopkeeper never wanted to go to that dungeon, they wanted something else that I didn't see or know how to provide and it never even occurred to me that they'd want that thing and so to warn them: hey this game is about dungeon diving and bomb disarmament just never even occurred to me. I'm thinking now: what did that shopkeeper want? What wasn't I providing and what were they unable to communicate to me about it? Is it something I can provide or am even interested in providing or is the answer, very much, as you say, for me to simply put up disclaimers like: this game/plot is your basic action movie and we will be doing basic action movie things here, so please make yourself some sort of action movie trope to have Peak Fun?

[Arkandel]

@pyrephox said in The Desired Experience:

@arkandel I think another thing that games can do is be more explicit about the experience they want to provide. Like, so often I've seen characters be approved in a game where the character is clearly built for a specific experience - only for the game runners to turn around and be either indifferent or actively hostile to that experience.

Agreed! And not just that - but staff need to enforce the experience not simply as what they provide but what they want.

For example if you run a game aiming for it to be a gritty Vampire game based on paranoid neonates working together to uncover an Elder conspiracy, but I come and play my character as a happy go-lucky nerd who's looking to improve his dating woes then I should have to compromise - as a player - more than you should as a GM.

Those two experiences aren't necessarily mutually exclusive but there's a chance I will derail what you're trying to do. And if it happens you need to be willing to set things straight or I can affect the way others play, too.

[krmbm]

Pretty much what @Pyrephox said, just add in "lots of lolz & angst, please."

[Seraphim73]

This is one of the reasons that I think games having a Mission Statement is so important: it tells players what Staff is interested in focusing on and what they should (generally) build their characters around. It sets expectations right off the bat, and lets people decide if it's the game for them. For example, here's our Mission Statement from The Savage Skies:

Fly the unfriendly skies in airplanes that never were, casting spells, dodging dragons, and fighting fascism in the late 1930s. Characters will be members of a "free" militia, The Sky Guard, secretly serving the interests of the French and British governments from an airship base. They will crisscross the Continent finding high adventure.

The Savage Skies MUSH is a game of dieselpunk adventure and modern fantasy. Players might be flying against air pirates one week, gathering information on Nationalist Spanish movements the next, trading spells with minions of the Drachenordnung another, and then treating with a great dragon to convince it to join the cause at the end of the month.

All characters will be explicitly tied to the militia group at the heart of the game, either as a fighting member or one of the smugglers, informants, and hangers-on that work directly with them. From there, you'll work together with other players to create your own adventures within the setting and metaplot provided by Staff.

It tells players that we're going to be focusing on action, adventure, and spy-work, that they all have to be part of the militia, and that they'll be at least partially responsible for creating fun (although Staff will be providing metaplot). It also gives Staff something to go back to for all their major decisions and ask, "Are we fulfilling our Mission Statement with this choice?"

To @Devrex's actual question though, I play for pretty much the exact same reasons as @Pyrephox -- I want to have cinematic action and drama, and to contribute to the plot of the game. I want to see the game world change because of the actions of my character. It doesn't have to be a -big- way, if my character contributes some lasting slang or creates a location that people use, that's enough. I want my character to succeed against NPCs about 2/3 - 3/4 of the time (more or less) and about 51% of the time against PCs (or more truthfully, I want outcomes between PCs that make sense ICly), and I OOCly want to be told when something is simply impossible -- I may have my character keep trying it anyhow, but at least then I know they'll never succeed.

[Pyrephox]

I just thought of another aspect of experience that's very important to me, but it's more of a meta thing -

Having a theme that is either loose enough, or well-explained enough, that I can run stuff when the mood strikes me without requiring a great deal of oversight or bureaucracy. I burn out on games a LOT faster when I don't have the option to generate content of some sort - usually not big, sweeping plots, but being able to run scenes or miniplots with minimal handholding or approval from Staff. A game that gives me the tools/guidelines up front for that will keep me a lot longer (if I find the theme inspiring) than a game that has a whole bunch of hidden theme I'm scared of 'running into' or that requires a big approval process and checking in with staff about any plots.

[Arkandel]

@seraphim73 How does (or does) playing style factor into it?

For instance let's revisit playing in a Lord of the Rings setting. Maybe my 'writing style' is more... modern and not quite what a purist might expect not so much from the content of my poses or the goals my PC has, but rather their vibe.

So if my character is asking those knife-eared freaks in Lothlórien to help curb-stomp some Orc skulls... assuming some kind of combat is warranted by the plot - does that impact the desired experience?

And if so, how would that be reflected in the Mission Statement?

[Ganymede]

@devrex said in The Desired Experience:

What is your desired experience when you get onto a MU*? What do you do this for? What kind of book or movie are you trying to step into there?

Objection as to form, but I shall answer your "question."

I hope to entertain: These games aren't fun if people aren't having fun and I'm just one player of many. If I get on and do something that people enjoyed watching or participating in, I win. This is why I am having fun with my vampire on Liberation; he's goofy; he's sweet; but he's also funny because chainsaws hurt, yo.

I hope to think: These games are interactive improv at heart. They get really boring when you're doing the same things all the time, whatever they are. So if I get into a situation where I have to think about what's happening and react to it within character then I'm probably having a great time.

I hope to learn something: In order to do either of the above, I need to get into my characters. I have learned so much from playing Piccola that it takes a lot of effort to get into her because writing for and being her takes a lot of mind-power. She somehow became part-samurai, part-assassin, and part-Machiavellian power-broker along the way that I think I need a break.

[Devrex]

@ganymede ??? I don't understand the objection as to form or why you put question in quotes.

[Ganymede]

@devrex said in The Desired Experience:

I don't understand the objection as to form or why you put question in quotes.

Your "question" is actually three questions. It's a compound question!

C'mon, if I can't make a lawyer joke, it's like --

[Devrex]

@ganymede LOL oh oh oh got it now. You can make a lawyer joke, that doesn't mean it's not going to go over my head sometimes!

[Ganymede]

@devrex said in The Desired Experience:

You can make a lawyer joke, that doesn't mean it's not going to go over my head sometimes!

That's okay. My humor be like:

[Carma]

This post is deleted!

[reversed]

Replace "Twitter" with "whatever MU* I happen to be playing at the moment" but otherwise as written:

[Warma Sheen]

I'm in the RPs for the supernatural adventure. I like the action and the danger. I like investigations and mysteries. I like social positioning and political intrigue. And I love all the crazy powers. I generally want to play something with powers.

What I don't want is a Second Life on MU*. If I can do it in real real life, I probably don't want to RP about it. I want a separation from my reality, as much as possible.

[il-volpe]

@devrex said in The Desired Experience:

have been quietly baffled when someone has made, say, a shopkeeper.

And then the shopkeeper is going: "I can't get any RP around here."

I suspect that shopkeeper frequently does want to go into the dungeon.

Behold. The most interesting character.

On a MUSH, odds are that the Bashir character never looks at Garak twice, staff ignore his hooks and never run 'The Wire' and Garak's NPCs (Enabran Tain, etc) never appear. Nobody interacts with him much, he says, "I can't get any RP around here," and leaves, and people shrug, "Why even make a tailor?"

Bashir, on the other hand, is genuinely boring until a sudden change/addition to his backstory was made five years and 112 episodes in, but is definitely a needed/wanted position/concept. Nobody will question why he was created nor assume that including him in action or looking for interpersonal depth with him is vain. It's even likely that they won't take five years and 112 episodes to try to help him grow more interesting.