I think one of the biggest problems is that people see staff and players as two different species, as though they aren't both the same types of human beings with all the inherent faults and brilliance that come with that.

Then there's a different standard put on the two species. And that is exploited by complaining about every little mistake a staffer does because of the higher standard they are held to and trying to get away with every little thing because players have a lower standard.

As people who are people, that shouldn't be. They should have the same standard of being people who are involved in playing on the same game. When that happens, you start to have much fewer excuses and resentment on the issues that do come up.

Not to weigh in on anything specific, but it just generally sounds like everyone would be happier with their funtimes if they let go of 5 year old resentments.

I have to say, I don't understand the desire to hold staffers to such strict and rigorous standards while players are generally allowed to be shits whenever they choose to be and continue to have as much fun as possible. It seems like there will be more people who don't run games and don't staff places just for not wanting to deal with the drama that such strict standards inevitably creates.

We're all bouncing around on the same games with the same people, pretending they are something new, when the reality is that we've done it all before and we'll do it all again. The same drama of cliquish, teenage whisper campaigns I dealt with 6 years ago, I'm dealing with on the place I play now. I wouldn't even be surprised if the people behind it were the same people from 6 years ago using the same tactics to alienate people. And that's insane.

Maybe it would be better for everyone to stop making different rules for staff and players as though they were two different species and instead hold people accountable for being people. Maybe then more people would be willing to donate time to places and actually be able to have fun, instead of being told that if you volunteer for a position to help all the other players, the rules in place are going to make it as difficult as possible for you to have your own fun. Maybe then we would get new stories and new ideas and less stress and less burn out and more people enjoying more of their time in this hobby.

@Sparks said in MU* Gripes and Peeves:

Many folks don't have the option to put it all aside by logging off.

For the most part, it is true. There have been several times I've tried logging off from being black. It never works.

@Tinuviel said in MU* Gripes and Peeves:

If you have the knowledge to accurately play a POC, with all their culture and history intact, then chances are high you already are aware of your biases enough to deal with them. If you don't, then you're likely just playing a white dude with chocolate frosting.

Just keep in mind there are many flavors of POC who also have many flavors of culture. A lot of people forget the distinction between skin color and culture. I know a few white dudes with chocolate frosting. I know a few chocolate dudes with white frosting. They are people too.

Don't let fear of 'getting it wrong' stop you from playing a POC character. If you want to play it safe, just play to what you know and the skin color won't matter.

I started watching Legacies on Netflix and had no idea it was a Vampire Diaries spin off. I've never seen Vampire Diaries or any of its other spin offs, of which there are a few, apparently (and have never had any desire to). But as I'm watching this show that is not very good in terms of writing or story or anything resembling traditional entertainment, I find myself thinking:

"OMG, I finally understand WoD MUs/MUers..."

Its got a monster of the week.
The monsters usually come to the characters without having to be sought out because the characters are basically ignoring all the huge threats around them to spend time on far more mundane and inconsequential tasks, like finding someone to hook up with.
Its got teenage supers who are the most powerful things around despite other, older things just like them that certainly have to be out there.
The "bad guys" basically just stand around waiting to be killed by the "good guys" with pretty predictable results every week.
Its got cliques...
Despite the powers and the responsibilities the characters primary motivations are took up with and that drives most of the interactions.
Its got boring, uninspired dialogue and interactions wherein the characters try to be so insightful with each other, but just end up pointing out cliches and tropes in the most ham fisted way possible.
Most mortals are seemingly oblivious to the supernatural despite the characters tendencies to throw around magic every chance they get, even though they aren't supposed to.
The characters are always forgiven with little to no consequences for breaking those all important "no powerz" rules.
Cliques...
Its got "that one guy", the character that min maxed their sheet and plays the brooding badass loner who only breaks his eternal skulking to show up in every combat scene to steal the show, but wonders why none of the other characters don't like them.
Its got a guy who started out strong and dove into the plot, took a leadership position then stops logging on except for every once in a blue moon for no discernible reason, except that he got what he wanted so now is bored/boring.
Also, cliques...

And despite many of these being applicable to other shows, I've never seen one that has them all together in a way that is so MU*-like. These are just off the top of my head. Sorry if I'm late to the party. I'm sure someone else has noticed before but I never watched any of the Vampire Diary series and it kind of blew my mind that I was basically watching a live action WoD MU*.

It suddenly became so much more entertaining.

We've seen this time and time again. Everyone has different opinions. This is where staff needs to have a guiding vision for their game to say "this is our world and here is how it generally works". That's theme. It keeps things together. Yeah, it might not be your preferred method of power level comparison, but it can get everyone on the same page and temper expectations.

@Ganymede said in What Would it Take to Repair the Community?:

It was apparent from the response that the game runner was aware of the issue. Regardless, I brought receipts; however, I know of nothing that was done to address the situation. That lack of action was one of the reasons I lost interest in the game.
This story has occurred many times in my 25+ years.
Going to the game runners is never a guarantee of action and brings with it a threat of exposure because, as Kestrel pointed out, that person may be good friends with staff. And if you want to stay on that game, you are potentially putting yourself in a difficult spot, one that might one day lead to your departure or start a whisper campaign against you.

This sounds oddly familiar to what just happened to me two months ago. A younger version of myself would say 'Yeah, based on my experience if you want to stay on a game just keep your mouth shut and don't ever say anything'.

But being older and wiser, I know that if you end up being kicked off a game by someone, then you were probably only going to be facing an uphill battle trying to have fun there anyway, which would be more work than enjoyment. So speak up and if it goes wrong, find other ways and means to have fun that aren't so toxic.

You'll be better for it in the long run.

I just wanted everyone to remember that people only vote moral, upstanding, law-abiding citizens to office. Anything else is just unthinkably unrealistic. I think, on this, we can all agree.

@Derp said in What Would it Take to Repair the Community?:

For everyone, at large: We really, truly aren't fucking around when we tell people to lay off the personal attacks. STOP IT. Debate ideas all you want to. You can even call out behaviors that you find problematic with evidence, but just trying to browbeat someone to win some kind of internet points is not gonna fly.

Not sure if this was in reference to @Seraphim73 's comments, but it seems like it was. But that's not a personal attack. That's literally calling out behaviors that he finds problematic with evidence. It was just someone else's evidence that was referenced.

And its legit. Most of us have seen it, if not experienced it directly. Best thing to do is own up to past bad behavior and concede those points, especially if you can recognize those behaviors as negative and as something you want to avoid in the future for the community, despite having engaged in them in the past.

The biggest thing that will suck the life out of a game if people don't feel like they can be involved in a substantial way. And I don't mean doing things or going into scenes. I mean the other players have their cliques and you can just tell that the main group is the main group - and you ain't in it.

On a game based on a show where there are definitely the main characters and the background folk, nothing will make people flee faster than feeling like background folk.

That's a player thing, though. Not a staff issue. Just depends on what kind of community you have.

In 1999 the red star Talos appeared in the sky the week after the horror of the Time of Nightmares ended. Scholars and talking heads appeared around the world to discuss how such a thing was the herald of cataclysm, with ancient peoples believing that it protrayed a coming cataclysm. Some even say that it burnished the sky a blood red the day Mount Vitruvius buried Pompeii.

A Grand Convocation was call pulling more than 500 mages and their custodes to hide inside the Horizon Realm of Unity. They are the survivors of apocalypse who have lived hiding within their own world for more than 24 years. As the two decades of isolation from the world they abandoned have passed, resources such as Quintessence and Tass have become commodities. Not enough for the many and horded by the few. Fractures have started to appear among the factions of Unity leading to the question of how will they continue to survive? Is it worth trying to fix the small pocket of reality that the magi survive in? Or would it be better to escape and see what became of the world?

Ascension Sojourns in a Mage 20th Anniversary game accepting beta testers ahead of a soft opening this fall, and grand opening this winter. Tradition Mage, Mortals, Sorcerers, Psychics, and Bygone are currently accepted. Bonus chargen XP will be given if you tell us where you saw this ad. We are looking for active players who want to write stories and be involved with plots. Each group, cabal or otherwise, will decide a “plot night” which will run like a weekly (or what works for the group) tabletop session with staff to advance game plots, and/or complete your groups +requests. Between sessions player are welcome to role-play amongst themselves as on any mush.

Connect to: Ascensionsojourns.com:7423
Wiki: https://ascensionsojourns.com
Discord: https://discord.gg/8KzHqZUbmx (or contact us in-game if this doesn’t work)

We have noticed that some Mu clients seem to take longer to connect to the game. We don’t understand why this is happening. However, we highly suggest BeipMU for your client, it seems to connect fastest.

((Note: Not my game. Posting for a friend.))

@Misadventure said in MU* Mystery RP:

A mismatch of expectations only leads to suckitude.
Intent -> All Players Expectations-> Game System Design -> ST Communication

That's usually the problem I run into on a MU*. A clash of expectations combined with pretty quick and unrelenting judgement that you can't ever escape from.

So making sure the players are all on the same page about expectations from the ST and from the players both is really important for a game. That's what I find to be missing from most MU*s.

@Macha said in Observation:

@hobos I mean we don't have an ongoing thread here, trying to diagnose someone we don't like with various mental issues, and we (as far as I know, I'm not staff or anything) haven't chased someone down to their Reddit/FB/etc accounts to message them and talk shit?

So I guess that's why I have no desire to go over to that 'other' place. People here are just being chill and talking about the things they like about how things are now. I don't think anyone said we were better. Just that there's less vitriol.

Maybe (if we ignore the irony of that post)... But also the "MU" in MU Soapbox seems to be conspicuously absent. Things aren't being stirred up much, I agree. All it took was the abandonment of the primary topic central to the forum. I wouldn't call that a win. Its more of a sad, cringey surrender to me.

Personally, I would have preferred if this place had continued to talk about MUs, but in a more civil manner that invites discussions and thoughts rather than attacks and bitterness, where people can feel safe to share their opinions and it is okay to have different views on topics and every thread doesn't devolve into someone determined to convince the entire internet that they have the one, true, only valid opinion on a subject. Alas, that might not actually be possible.

But everyone has their own perspectives and if people still like this place for what it is, then I'm happy that people can enjoy... as long as they really do enjoy it and aren't just looking for a silver lining on a bleak, lifeless horizon.

6 years later!?! ROFLMAO

I played a while back when they had wizards and it was a fun time. It suffered temporarily from a rash of players that had NO FEAR! but got upset when characters died and blamed the game in proper dramatic fashion. Otherwise, it was a interesting game with a solid story.

@Devrex said in The Great PC Death Dilemma:

In my opinion death is just the most boring possible thing you can do to a PC or to their story.

Strong disagree.

Like most things in the hobby, it depends on the player. For bad players, I find a resolution with consequences rather than death to be much more boring if the player completely dismisses the consequences, which bad players inevitably do.

"The NPC I love is gonna die. I'll find someone else to love."
"I'm in a deal I don't want to be caught in. I'll back out."
"I'm being blackmailed. So what."
"I wake up at the bottom of a well. I climb out."

For good players, death is just as interesting as other options. But death is only as interesting for the players around the dead character make it when other characters to feel the death and have it affect them and their stories.

Death usually boring because it is handled in a boring way. Dice roll, character's dead. How many times do you see a player roll into a character death, then it is RPed out in a dramatic way? Rarely. They're just dead. But there's no reason a "dead" character can't be on his way out the door, but hold on long enough to say their peace before they go. Fatal injury too far gone, but not quite so immediate that they can't be dragged back for goodbyes.

The dice can guide the story, but it doesn't have to dictate it. The dice are there to add elements of random chance to direct the story in ways you don't have to decide, not to force your characters into crappy stories. But again, good players and good STs know this already and do as they need to to keep the entertainment high.

Bad players and bad STs just look at the dice and say, "Oh. I died. That's dumb." "Yep. Sux bro."

@Devrex said in The Great PC Death Dilemma:

The PCs are supposed to be the heroes of the book, movie, or TV show. We know the MCs just aren't going to randomly die for no reason because of some random dice roll on all our favorite shows.

But MUs aren't TV shows or books. It is its own beast. What other storytelling medium has 134 main characters. The idea that the PCs are all simultaneously the main characters of a MU is unsustainable.

At the end of the day its a game that's only as good as the people involved. Bad players and bad STs will ruin any game no matter how good your policies or preparations are just as good players and good STs can make any game fun no matter how bad the rules or system is.

Apparently Amazon is satisfied with Wheel of Time and are doubling down.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/wheel-of-time-season-2-is-changing-its-episodes/ar-AA10eiJB?ocid=wispr&li=BBnb7Kz

XP caps are great. But MU*s should have alternate systems for rewarding players besides just giving XP. I get that that's all players really want so that can go to the moon with XP, but we've all seen what the XP bloats do to games.

There was a theory (I don't know that it ever came into play) of adding a secondary kind of currency that you could spend to do other things besides give your character MOAR POWAH. It was spent on things like unique equipment, territory, territory upkeep, and other side benefits that make your character a bit cooler, but is just side benefits. So much stuff is given away by staff for free or just handwaved that could easily be controlled and used as a reward for contributions to the game. Like grid space.

If you want to be a little more restrictive you can do stat caps that are opened with the secondary currency. Like all stats capped at 4. But you can buy level 5 for 10 "MU* points" in addition to the normal XP.

Contribution to games shouldn't be taken for granted. Those are so important. And not just running scenes. There are lots of ways (probably) to contribute to a game. But contributions also shouldn't imbalance the characters in that game.

P.S. The 'show me the logs method' just forces (some) people to do shitty RP to get the stuff. I want my character to have Academics. I DON'T want to RP studying for five scenes to justify it. There is a good reason that some some stuff is skipped over in the stories that we tell. They are boring and no one enjoys them. I want to spend my time on fun RP stuff, not forced subject material. Its a horrific idea, especially if there's no standard to what qualifies as 'good enough' for an acceptable log, which is a nightmare to try to qualify and judge. Overall, just don't.

@Derp said in What Would it Take to Repair the Community?:

For everyone, at large: We really, truly aren't fucking around when we tell people to lay off the personal attacks. STOP IT. Debate ideas all you want to. You can even call out behaviors that you find problematic with evidence, but just trying to browbeat someone to win some kind of internet points is not gonna fly.

Not sure if this was in reference to @Seraphim73 's comments, but it seems like it was. But that's not a personal attack. That's literally calling out behaviors that he finds problematic with evidence. It was just someone else's evidence that was referenced.

And its legit. Most of us have seen it, if not experienced it directly. Best thing to do is own up to past bad behavior and concede those points, especially if you can recognize those behaviors as negative and as something you want to avoid in the future for the community, despite having engaged in them in the past.

@Ganymede said in What Would it Take to Repair the Community?:

It was apparent from the response that the game runner was aware of the issue. Regardless, I brought receipts; however, I know of nothing that was done to address the situation. That lack of action was one of the reasons I lost interest in the game.
This story has occurred many times in my 25+ years.
Going to the game runners is never a guarantee of action and brings with it a threat of exposure because, as Kestrel pointed out, that person may be good friends with staff. And if you want to stay on that game, you are potentially putting yourself in a difficult spot, one that might one day lead to your departure or start a whisper campaign against you.

This sounds oddly familiar to what just happened to me two months ago. A younger version of myself would say 'Yeah, based on my experience if you want to stay on a game just keep your mouth shut and don't ever say anything'.

But being older and wiser, I know that if you end up being kicked off a game by someone, then you were probably only going to be facing an uphill battle trying to have fun there anyway, which would be more work than enjoyment. So speak up and if it goes wrong, find other ways and means to have fun that aren't so toxic.

You'll be better for it in the long run.