Best posts made by Warma Sheen

I think one of the biggest problems is that people see staff and players as two different species, as though they aren't both the same types of human beings with all the inherent faults and brilliance that come with that.

Then there's a different standard put on the two species. And that is exploited by complaining about every little mistake a staffer does because of the higher standard they are held to and trying to get away with every little thing because players have a lower standard.

As people who are people, that shouldn't be. They should have the same standard of being people who are involved in playing on the same game. When that happens, you start to have much fewer excuses and resentment on the issues that do come up.

Not to weigh in on anything specific, but it just generally sounds like everyone would be happier with their funtimes if they let go of 5 year old resentments.

I have to say, I don't understand the desire to hold staffers to such strict and rigorous standards while players are generally allowed to be shits whenever they choose to be and continue to have as much fun as possible. It seems like there will be more people who don't run games and don't staff places just for not wanting to deal with the drama that such strict standards inevitably creates.

We're all bouncing around on the same games with the same people, pretending they are something new, when the reality is that we've done it all before and we'll do it all again. The same drama of cliquish, teenage whisper campaigns I dealt with 6 years ago, I'm dealing with on the place I play now. I wouldn't even be surprised if the people behind it were the same people from 6 years ago using the same tactics to alienate people. And that's insane.

Maybe it would be better for everyone to stop making different rules for staff and players as though they were two different species and instead hold people accountable for being people. Maybe then more people would be willing to donate time to places and actually be able to have fun, instead of being told that if you volunteer for a position to help all the other players, the rules in place are going to make it as difficult as possible for you to have your own fun. Maybe then we would get new stories and new ideas and less stress and less burn out and more people enjoying more of their time in this hobby.

@Sparks said in MU* Gripes and Peeves:

Many folks don't have the option to put it all aside by logging off.

For the most part, it is true. There have been several times I've tried logging off from being black. It never works.

@Tinuviel said in MU* Gripes and Peeves:

If you have the knowledge to accurately play a POC, with all their culture and history intact, then chances are high you already are aware of your biases enough to deal with them. If you don't, then you're likely just playing a white dude with chocolate frosting.

Just keep in mind there are many flavors of POC who also have many flavors of culture. A lot of people forget the distinction between skin color and culture. I know a few white dudes with chocolate frosting. I know a few chocolate dudes with white frosting. They are people too.

Don't let fear of 'getting it wrong' stop you from playing a POC character. If you want to play it safe, just play to what you know and the skin color won't matter.

I started watching Legacies on Netflix and had no idea it was a Vampire Diaries spin off. I've never seen Vampire Diaries or any of its other spin offs, of which there are a few, apparently (and have never had any desire to). But as I'm watching this show that is not very good in terms of writing or story or anything resembling traditional entertainment, I find myself thinking:

"OMG, I finally understand WoD MUs/MUers..."

Its got a monster of the week.
The monsters usually come to the characters without having to be sought out because the characters are basically ignoring all the huge threats around them to spend time on far more mundane and inconsequential tasks, like finding someone to hook up with.
Its got teenage supers who are the most powerful things around despite other, older things just like them that certainly have to be out there.
The "bad guys" basically just stand around waiting to be killed by the "good guys" with pretty predictable results every week.
Its got cliques...
Despite the powers and the responsibilities the characters primary motivations are took up with and that drives most of the interactions.
Its got boring, uninspired dialogue and interactions wherein the characters try to be so insightful with each other, but just end up pointing out cliches and tropes in the most ham fisted way possible.
Most mortals are seemingly oblivious to the supernatural despite the characters tendencies to throw around magic every chance they get, even though they aren't supposed to.
The characters are always forgiven with little to no consequences for breaking those all important "no powerz" rules.
Cliques...
Its got "that one guy", the character that min maxed their sheet and plays the brooding badass loner who only breaks his eternal skulking to show up in every combat scene to steal the show, but wonders why none of the other characters don't like them.
Its got a guy who started out strong and dove into the plot, took a leadership position then stops logging on except for every once in a blue moon for no discernible reason, except that he got what he wanted so now is bored/boring.
Also, cliques...

And despite many of these being applicable to other shows, I've never seen one that has them all together in a way that is so MU*-like. These are just off the top of my head. Sorry if I'm late to the party. I'm sure someone else has noticed before but I never watched any of the Vampire Diary series and it kind of blew my mind that I was basically watching a live action WoD MU*.

It suddenly became so much more entertaining.

We've seen this time and time again. Everyone has different opinions. This is where staff needs to have a guiding vision for their game to say "this is our world and here is how it generally works". That's theme. It keeps things together. Yeah, it might not be your preferred method of power level comparison, but it can get everyone on the same page and temper expectations.

@Ganymede said in What Would it Take to Repair the Community?:

It was apparent from the response that the game runner was aware of the issue. Regardless, I brought receipts; however, I know of nothing that was done to address the situation. That lack of action was one of the reasons I lost interest in the game.
This story has occurred many times in my 25+ years.
Going to the game runners is never a guarantee of action and brings with it a threat of exposure because, as Kestrel pointed out, that person may be good friends with staff. And if you want to stay on that game, you are potentially putting yourself in a difficult spot, one that might one day lead to your departure or start a whisper campaign against you.

This sounds oddly familiar to what just happened to me two months ago. A younger version of myself would say 'Yeah, based on my experience if you want to stay on a game just keep your mouth shut and don't ever say anything'.

But being older and wiser, I know that if you end up being kicked off a game by someone, then you were probably only going to be facing an uphill battle trying to have fun there anyway, which would be more work than enjoyment. So speak up and if it goes wrong, find other ways and means to have fun that aren't so toxic.

You'll be better for it in the long run.

I just wanted everyone to remember that people only vote moral, upstanding, law-abiding citizens to office. Anything else is just unthinkably unrealistic. I think, on this, we can all agree.

@Derp said in What Would it Take to Repair the Community?:

For everyone, at large: We really, truly aren't fucking around when we tell people to lay off the personal attacks. STOP IT. Debate ideas all you want to. You can even call out behaviors that you find problematic with evidence, but just trying to browbeat someone to win some kind of internet points is not gonna fly.

Not sure if this was in reference to @Seraphim73 's comments, but it seems like it was. But that's not a personal attack. That's literally calling out behaviors that he finds problematic with evidence. It was just someone else's evidence that was referenced.

And its legit. Most of us have seen it, if not experienced it directly. Best thing to do is own up to past bad behavior and concede those points, especially if you can recognize those behaviors as negative and as something you want to avoid in the future for the community, despite having engaged in them in the past.

The biggest thing that will suck the life out of a game if people don't feel like they can be involved in a substantial way. And I don't mean doing things or going into scenes. I mean the other players have their cliques and you can just tell that the main group is the main group - and you ain't in it.

On a game based on a show where there are definitely the main characters and the background folk, nothing will make people flee faster than feeling like background folk.

That's a player thing, though. Not a staff issue. Just depends on what kind of community you have.

XP caps are great. But MU*s should have alternate systems for rewarding players besides just giving XP. I get that that's all players really want so that can go to the moon with XP, but we've all seen what the XP bloats do to games.

There was a theory (I don't know that it ever came into play) of adding a secondary kind of currency that you could spend to do other things besides give your character MOAR POWAH. It was spent on things like unique equipment, territory, territory upkeep, and other side benefits that make your character a bit cooler, but is just side benefits. So much stuff is given away by staff for free or just handwaved that could easily be controlled and used as a reward for contributions to the game. Like grid space.

If you want to be a little more restrictive you can do stat caps that are opened with the secondary currency. Like all stats capped at 4. But you can buy level 5 for 10 "MU* points" in addition to the normal XP.

Contribution to games shouldn't be taken for granted. Those are so important. And not just running scenes. There are lots of ways (probably) to contribute to a game. But contributions also shouldn't imbalance the characters in that game.

P.S. The 'show me the logs method' just forces (some) people to do shitty RP to get the stuff. I want my character to have Academics. I DON'T want to RP studying for five scenes to justify it. There is a good reason that some some stuff is skipped over in the stories that we tell. They are boring and no one enjoys them. I want to spend my time on fun RP stuff, not forced subject material. Its a horrific idea, especially if there's no standard to what qualifies as 'good enough' for an acceptable log, which is a nightmare to try to qualify and judge. Overall, just don't.

@Derp He's saying that if someone has actually changed, it is easy to get around a preemptive ban. They just come up with a new screen name and can avoid being associated with their previous reputation by just being a decent person / player.

So a free clean slate is easy. In theory. But some people are so crappy that they can't help themselves from repeating the same crappy mistakes of being crappy to other people. Some people are unable or unwilling to be better so they keep doing the same crappy things and whether or not they are associated with their previous identity still end up banned for still being a generally crappy person. These are the people being preemptively banned who continuously do crappy things. And it is better for everyone involved that they and their reputations (and baggage) be left outside.

As a person who has never played on this particular game my perception is very similar to what @surreality has described. Obviously, people are going to complain from their perspective and slant things to try to get other people to see it their way. In fact, a lot of times when people complain here it has the opposite effect and it only makes people curious to go try the game themselves and hope for a different result. Because everyone here knows that people can and will exaggerate the injustices done to them when they don't get things to go their way on a game. But the responses from staffers who come and try to defend their actions are usually what put the nails in the coffin, especially when done harshly. It is hard to want to play on a game when you don't trust the staff to be fair and level-headed and all your time and creativity can fall victim to someone's bad day.

Separate from that, I've never really understood games like this - while also recognizing some people love it - where the game is based on source material, but you're not allowed to affect the known storyline in any way. It always just feels like I'm making extras in that world. "Here's the story of people who weren't important enough and weren't capable or influential enough to have any effect or even be mentioned in the real story we all love! Aren't you tired of the story of great heroes, masterful villains and cunning scoundrels? Come bask in the apathy of mediocrity instead!" Its basically a collection of stories that were cut for not being good enough or relevant to make it to publication or production.

Again, I know some people love it. I know there are plenty of stories to be told in between everything else going on. I've just never understood the desire for those stories, personally.

@Sunny said in What MU/RPG opinions have you changed or maintained?:

I've totally given that up in favor of #1 priority being 'everyone enjoying themselves' -- it doesn't always work, and sometimes there are conflicting goals and things, but I think it's a better approach to the hobby than IC being sacrosanct like I used to feel.

It is a good approach. I just hate when people use that as a shield of impunity to whine and complain about consequences because that's not fun for them i.e. it would ruin the character, or that's not where the character progression would go, or it takes away my agency, etc....

It is made worse by people's openness to what they consider "enjoyment". Some people won't have fun if any bit of control is taken away from them. Example: Every time there is a game plot that holds PCs in a particular location, like a big storm or a magical barrier, for any length of time without fail there are people complaining that "it is killing their rp." They can't or won't expand their horizons to enjoy themselves and many times the same people complaining about lost rp are the ones who sit ooc 24/7 and never rp anyway.

It gets exhausting sometimes to try to go through options A to Q trying to find a response that the other person will accept without complaint or snark until you just have to give up and say 'Okay, nevermind, My character will just completely ignore that you wrecked his business for shits and giggles'. You really can't be responsible for other people's enjoyment.

But this is why people clique up. Because if you find good people to play with who share the mentality that everyone's enjoyment is important, it rocks socks.

Add that to my list. I used to think cliques hurt games because people got left out, now I don't think they are all that bad. I definitely understand the appeal to RP just with friends and people with shared values. So much more enjoyable.

@Admiral It didn't end how I'd have liked, but it wasn't terrible... well, no, it was. I tried. But finales are too often like that, unfortunately.

Still, it doesn't keep me from wanting to see 4. I'm curious to see what 20 years can bring to the table. Whacko Wachowski has had both very good and very bad stuff in those 20 years. Let's see where this one falls.

@Auspice said in Good or New Movies Review:

Sony: Rather than admit it's Marvel's guidance and influence that made Spider-Man successful again, we're gonna fuck off and go back to what we were doing. Peace.

Fuck Sony. They let the Disney/Marvel team do all the heavy lifting and now they want to continue to milk all the profits for themselves as they ride the momentum someone else built for them. Short-sighted, greedy ingrates. It'll all fade pretty fast once Marvel gets rolling on their next story arc and Spider Man isn't a part of it. What a waste. Marvel just wanted an even split and it wasn't enough that they just made a billion dollars off of them on one movie? This makes me want to stab Sony executives in the face...

@A.-Meowley said in Sin City Chronicles:

@tragedyjones said in Sin City Chronicles:

Re: Changeling.

There will not be a "and then suddenly, faeries" type situation.

Awww, but that worked so well for True Blood.

(/s, obviously.)

Hey, it isn't True Blood's fault that WoD blew past the release date for Changeling then Anna Paquin applied to have her character retroactively be faeblooded. These things just happen and you adjust as best you can.

By adding werewolves.

@HelloProject said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:

So, speaking as a black person at least, I think that the most fair thing to do is definitely to avoid slurs altogether. I'm not looking to make another black person uncomfortable just because, say, I was fine with the N word, and they aren't. It's a pretty visceral word, I know black people who can't stand hearing it from anyone, it can be kind of like hearing a nuke randomly drop out of no where.

I'm in the latter group. I can't stand hearing the N-word, even from other black people. I have never bought into the idea that the N-word is "reclaimed", mostly because I've never heard it used in a context than it was used originally: negative. The only thing people have done is normalize the idea of being negative to their friend groups - which is a rather normal, standard-practice unhealthy relationship dynamic. The same people calling their friends the N-word are also calling them bitches, motherfuckers, etc. I have yet to hear the N-word used in a positive context.

So is that the way some people talk to each other? Yes. Is it still highly offensive? Yes.

Relevance: If you're wondering if you should use that language because it makes your POC character more authentic, don't please. There's plenty of other foul language terms to use if that's how your character relates to others.

@ganymede Can't wait until that's normal to us.

In answer to the original question: Very, very hard.

Theme isn't something decreed by staff at the beginning of the game. Theme is "living" and evolving. If someone doesn't enforce the theme, then that becomes your theme. Does player X drive through the city in invisible cars and nothing happens to him? Then your game's theme is now one in which you can drive through the city in invisible cars and nothing will happen to you.

The theme that the books set out is one in which "everything happens for a reason". There is a reason a sphere has a rule against X, Y, and Z. Because when you do X, Y, and Z - bad stuff happens. If I get into your game and do X, Y, and Z and nothing happens, then those rules mean less and less to me each time I get away with it. No different than RL, really. So if I'm breaking thematic rules ICly in private and no one finds out, that's fine, because no one found out, therefore no one knows to apply the consequences. But if anyone does find out and no consequences are applied, I'd be less and less concerned about following those rules. The same goes if I see other people breaking those rules and nothing happens.

Having the Masquerade in place wasn't just for the cool factor of being a vampire. It was because there would be consequences for all vampires if the world at large acknowledged the existence of vampires and therefore, vampires policed themselves harshly for breaking the Masquerade. As a result, the enforcement of the Masquerade led to many other rules/policies being in place, politically and socially, and was a major part of being a vampire in a civilized society. So if you lose a major pillar of your theme to non-enforcement, many other pillars collapse as well. For example, if breaking the Masquerade isn't important in this city, what does it matter if I make childer and set them loose without proper instruction? (This is a very, very elementary understanding of Vampire from many editions ago - but I think the point still gets across.)

I can't tell you the number of times there were reminders in nWoD Changeling that Changelings were supposed to be very secretive and shy away from public attention because of True Fae and Loyalists when the reality of the game was that there were beaches of glitter flooding the streets of the city from Glamour being thrown around with abandon in public and no one was ever, EVER carted off back to Arcadia from being tracked down by True Fae, Loyalists, or anything else. But when a PC was killed by another group of PCs and the promise of actual consequences was a reality, PCs got real secretive, real quick, and turtled up with friends for protection (exactly how the entire sphere should have been acting, according to the established theme) - except neither side of PCs were Loyalists, just feuding.

The supposed theme was one thing, the actual theme on the game was something else entirely. What it all came down to was consequences.

So theme enforcement should happen. How varies. You can go with direct staff intervention, NPC interdiction, or if you're brave enough - PC enforcement. But your theme will be what it will be, with or without you.

Interesting thread.

I wanted to do one of these and then realized my apology would sound like one of those not-so-genuine ones. I didn't understand the community for a long time when I started MUSHing. I played online the way I played at tabletops and LARPs. We played hard, competitive, and to theme. And that was really fun. But it wasn't the way other people on MU*s were expecting to play. And that caused some conflict.

But I don't think that's something to apologize for. I had certain experiences and expectations and other people had different ones. That's life. Not everyone agrees. Trying to craft that into an apology would definitely be pandering to people.

And yet some people want to be pandered to. And others want to see people humble themselves.

It is an interesting thread.