The Wheel of Time

[Three-Eyed Crow]

@arkandel
I can't speak for anyone else, but it'd make me feel worse about it. While I don't entirely love the choice, I do get how being inadvertently responsible for the death of someone he loves fits into Perrin's larger arc in the books. If she was evil all along that feels like it lets him off the hook and takes away the thing about it that's actually interesting.

[Seraphim73]

@arkandel I would want the character to have some purpose beyond traumatizing/driving one of the "main" characters. I would like her life to have some impact on the characters around her, not just her death.

Here are two examples, one iffy and one pretty good: ***=Show Spoilers***

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The girl with the doll that the Fade killed (I'm pretty sure it was the Fade that killed her and not Mat) to try to get to Mat and Rand? She was killed to give some trauma to Rand and (especially) Mat, but she also, through the doll, introduced the idea of Birgitte. It's not as in-depth an example as I would like, but at least there was some purpose to the character besides being killed and inflicting trauma.

A better example would actually be the bartender darkfriend: she's killed to add trauma to Mat and (especially) Rand, but she also demonstrates that Rand is getting over Egwene to some degree, that darkfriends are everywhere, and that Thom is a badass.

[Paradox]

@seraphim73

As well in our house, the spouse and child have both watched it having never read the books and have enjoyed it. Not immensely, but at least enough to want to continue watching it with me. I answer a few questions once in awhile.

[Arkandel]

https://winteriscoming.net/2021/12/11/the-wheel-of-time-moiraine-problem-too-interesting-rosamund-pike

I kinda agree. Unless they are willing to pull a Ned Stark here, Moiraine isn't supposed to be the story's protagonist by any means.

And of course she's a more interesting characters than the others. She has much more screen time than the rest combined at least in this season.

[tek]

The costumes are so bad. SO bad. They are so bad that they killed me and I am dead and posting from beyond the grave

[Arkandel]

@tek Would you say the grave is no bar to MSB's call?

[Rucket]

@arkandel Well, Moiraine is played by the most well known actor/actress on the show, so I get why they did it. Also the Wheel of Time starts off dominated by one character, but quickly becomes more of an ensemble affair where we get points of view from lots of different main characters. So to be honest, I would rather the show get people used to seeing things from the viewpoints of multiple characters than focusing on just one or two characters like The Eye of the World originally did.

[Arkandel]

@rucket Yeah but that's not at all how season 1 went/has gone so far. Except for one episode I'd argue every other has focused half of its time on Moiraine's point of view. For example Perrin has gotten very little focus. Mat has barely done anything that gave the character a voice or agency. Rand is a bit bland although at this point in the books that's justified.

Nynaeve had more moments, mind you, although that's partly because of the actor's excellent chemistry with Lan's (which, to me, is one of the most promising parts of the show). And Egwene had last week's episode to shine a bit.

[Rucket]

Oh. My. Fucking. God.

The opener gave me fucking chills.

The flame & the void gave me chills.

The ending gave me chills.

What an episode.

Holy fucking shit. Shaiel, destroyer of Illianers. Holy shit. If that's what a Maiden can do when about to pop a baby out, I can't WAIT to see what Aiel who aren't affected by a pregnancy can do. Oh man. OH MAN. And then omfg. That sword coming down. You knew, you just KNEW.

***Difference in book & show***

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I have to say... Tam al'Thor putting down weapon, taking his helmet off and just offering her his hand so she can give birth with another human at her side is such a humanizing moment and a great change from the books where Tam just shows up after she's given birth and died. That's more bleak, this is still bleak but at least Tigraine has someone there at the very end. It also really does a lot for Tam's character and really highlights that of all the things that might have happened to the Dragon Reborn, he was given into the care of worthy people.

Phew, and that reveal. I loved it. Just loved it. It's a lot different than the books to be sure but the reverberating thumps of just bullseye after bullseye was really really cool. Being an avid soundtrack person, I knew exactly what was about to happen when the music started because that song is called Aman Syndai (Dragon Reborn).

I don't even know exactly what is going to happen to end this season next week but I'm certainly looking forward to it. And then the bleakness as we wait for Season 2.

[Wizz]

***Question***

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Is the implication that Rand's realization that he is the Dragon is delusional?? It's like, we flash back to the Ways, and it's Machin Shin telling him he's the one and he knows it, instead of what we were shown he heard. But then we're not supposed to trust Machin Shin??

Rand can channel and his birth was clearly portentous, but are they still sort of running with the five-headed dragon thing? (I mean, they did call it out in the episode recap.) They're all obviously going to go after Moiraine and Rand to the Eye, and presumably they survive the forces Moiraine said would destroy anyone not the Dragon, right?

OR DO THEY???

[Rucket]

@wizz

***Re: Wizz's Question***

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I can see how one can think that, but I don't know that Machin Shin is lying to them all exactly.

Going back and listening to what Machin Shin is telling each one, it feels like what is happening here is that it is reaching into their souls and bringing out their greatest fear and punching them square in the face with it.

Like to Moiraine: "You're wrong about everything, you'll murder these children and call it heroism."

That sounds like a reasonable fear for Moiraine to have tbh. And later on when we are hammered with the signs of Rand's channeling, Rand remembering Dragonmount and Rand's birth upon Dragonmount and being found by Tam, it feels like that scene of Machin Shin has reached into him and pulled out his singular greatest fear.

It's you, you've always known it's you deep down.
No matter how fast or far you run, you cannot escape your fate.
You are the Dragon Reborn.
You. Are. The Dragon. Reborn.

And to top off that scene... earlier when Rand is shooting arrows, his shots are all around the mark. When he finally decides to accept who and what he is, he easily slips into the Void and just starts slamming bullseye after bullseye with his shots.

[Arkandel]

I, too, have a question.

***=NSFW content***

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But first some general observations about the episode.

Rand's mom was a fucking badass. And that was easily the best choreographed fight scene in the series so far, hands down. Bring on the Aiel!

More excellent scenes between Nynaeve and Lan. Their actors are killing it.

Min was interesting. Not how I was expecting her. There were fewer (no?) sparks between her and Rand though, perhaps intentionally.

But finally... damn, how many goddamn women is Rand going to be comforted by in this show? Because his 'three' are mentioned in Min's vision, and the whole romance with Egwene refuses to go away. At this point in the first book they had mutually agreed to let it rest.

The whole Egwene/Rand/Perrin (!) love triangle is kinda weird. I don't see the point. All they had was wait a little and they'd have lots of romantic entanglements for these characters to work with.

Also, uhm, where did Loial go after they got out of the Waygate? Did he die? No one said anything?

[Rucket]

@arkandel

***=NSFW content***

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I didn't expect sparks at Min & Rand's first meeting. Though I do wonder if that baby we saw Rand holding in her vision is her & Rand's. The baby had dark hair, Min has dark hair and unless Elayne isn't a blonde, I can't imagine Aviendha having dark hair either.

I think this was the last hurrah for Rand & Egwene. But yeah, the Perrin thing is kinda hinted at in the books that he likes her, but I don't expect a lot of this stuff to last past this season. Hell, even that argument didn't last all that long.

Loial went to the library.

[Runescryer]

@arkandel The only evidence that she was a Darkfriend came from Perrin's nightmare, which was being manipulated by the Dark One or one of the Forsaken. I don't think that wolves are going to exist in dreams like the do in the books.

[Runescryer]

So, I know that everyone is gushing about the opening fight...

Yes, it was cool and well choreographed.

But it also just left me shaking my head. Because this series is defining itself on how 'extra' it can be; and that whole sequence just took 'extra', shattered it, then re-assembled the broken pieces.

Also, I'm thinking that Matt didn't join them because the plan for the series is for him to go off and start his booty call storyline in Season 2. Not sure how he's going to get his spear and medallion if that's the case.

[Arkandel]

@runescryer said in The Wheel of Time:

Also, I'm thinking that Matt didn't join them because the plan for the series is for him to go off and start his booty call storyline in Season 2. Not sure how he's going to get his spear and medallion if that's the case.

My theory is it's due to whatever happened with Mat's actor.

I simply think he wasn't available to shoot episode 7 (or 8?) at all.

[crayon]

@runescryer said in The Wheel of Time:

But it also just left me shaking my head. Because this series is defining itself on how 'extra' it can be; and that whole sequence just took 'extra', shattered it, then re-assembled the broken pieces.

Agree, I actually didn't really care for the opening scene.

It was way over the top.

@arkandel said in The Wheel of Time:

My theory is it's due to whatever happened with Mat's actor.
I simply think he wasn't available to shoot episode 7 (or 8?) at all.

Yeah, my understanding is that the actor noped out of the show or was noped out of the show for some reason during one of their COVID breaks, so he was completely written out for this season and is getting replaced next. (Which is unfortunate because I rather liked him and thought he was doing a great job of outshining Mat's otherwise less than stellar portrayal in the first few books with pure snark.)

***=***

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They'll probably have the new Mat get captured by the Red Ajah or something in time to be forcibly joined to the horn arc.

[WildBaboons]

The Aiel fight scene was not as terrible as I expected but still meh. Meh on par with the rest choreography of the series though.

I wish they explained how the ways were used without the one power though.

[Rucket]

@wildbaboons there is a promotional image under extra content with Fain holding a leaf. So those technically exist I guess, just a lack of time in the episode

[Arkandel]

***=Show-channeling comments***

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The basics of channeling function differently in the show.

For example it was revealed that Rand channeled Saidin in order to push that trolloc off the bridge in the Ways.

However since it wasn't Egwene who channeled then that have should have tipped Moiraine off since, in the books, it'd have come out of nowhere - clearly a male's weaves. So it seems channeling is the same, i.e. every channeler can feel everyone's weaves regardless of gender.

A small nitpick: I like how the series literally starts with Moiraine's monologue about how arrogant men did a dum-dum and had a half-assed plan to imprison the Dark One. What is her plan? Oh let's take this dude who had been herding sheep ten days earlier, without even her Warder, walk into the Blight and up to the Bore hoping it works out somehow.