The State of the Chronicles of Darkness
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@Sanguine said:
Werewolf: the Forsaken fans…keep your heightened senses peeled! We hear an Advance PDF for Werewolf: the Forsaken 2nd Edition featuring the Idigam Chronicle has been sighted! It might be as close by as Wednesday
I haven't run any actual numbers or comparisons yet, but... I think the Uratha have a significant edge now. The ability to do lethal to vampires in any form, plus the healing and other bonuses of the forms...
The best weapon against a werewolf is Silver or supernatural aggravated damage. And even then, you need to be damn good. A high BP vampire in a frenzy, with Claws of the Unholy, will still tear a werewolf up (probably). But on average, Uratha are now the physical threat the fluff tried to sell them ass.
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Is it their claws and teeth that do lethal to vampires, or just their claws?
Also, aggravated damage is now really just an additional way to injure things, not something you should rely on, as I understand it.
But it's nice to know that the problem they tried to fix with Requiem 2nd Edition is now well underway to begin again. Sigh.
“Real magic can never be made by offering someone else's liver. You must tear out your own, and not expect to get it back.”
― Peter S. Beagle, The Last Unicorn -
Werewolves will generally beat Vampires in physical combat now by my estimation especially some combos. A Rahu Blood Talon in Kuruth with moderate amounts of Renown and sensible Gifts means you should run and/or hide.
Some things just get funny, like you can make your bite be a +20 Damage weapon.
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@Olsson said:
Werewolves will generally beat Vampires in physical combat now by my estimation especially some combos. A Rahu Blood Talon in Kuruth with moderate amounts of Renown and sensible Gifts means you should run and/or hide.
Some things just get funny, like you can make your bite be a +20 Damage weapon.
I'd like to point out the "generally" part of the statement because that seems to get lost a lot of the time when people read things.
I like what they did, they made werewolves what most of us envision them being. With Vampire 2e they did a lot to "buff" vampire powers/disciplines and move everything into GMC in the same manner it appears they moved with Werewolf.
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True, and werewolves are supposed to be killing machines, I suppose, while a vampire's more of an all-around "don't pick a fight with it" sort of dealie.
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@The-Tree-of-Woe said:
Is it their claws and teeth that do lethal to vampires, or just their claws?
Other way around: just their teeth. Even in human form, their teeth do Lethal to vampires. Their claws are not always Supernatural, but their teeth are.
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Seems legit. Lethal's still not aggravated damage, in any event.
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One intresting part for the healing of Werewolves is, it is no longer 1 Essence for 1 Lethal, it's one Essence to upgrade your natural healing to heal lethal instead of Bashing. So at Primal Urge 4, you heal 2 Lethal per Essence, at PU 10, you heal 6 Lethal per Essence spent.
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What's the drawback of having a high Primal Urge? I'm looking at the book now, but I haven't gotten that far.
“Real magic can never be made by offering someone else's liver. You must tear out your own, and not expect to get it back.”
― Peter S. Beagle, The Last Unicorn -
@The-Tree-of-Woe Lunacy's more intense and you have to participate in the Sacred Hunt more often.
"Excuse the hell out of you. He's a bag of dicks. I'm a carefully curated box of cocks." -- to @GirlCalledBlu upon being misrepresented.
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@Coin said:
@The-Tree-of-Woe Lunacy's more intense and you have to participate in the Sacred Hunt more often.
Wasn't there something about being less able to resist the urge to shift? Maybe it was about something else.
- He who takes offense when not intended is a fool. He who takes offense when intended is a greater fool.
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@Arkandel That's Harmony.
"Excuse the hell out of you. He's a bag of dicks. I'm a carefully curated box of cocks." -- to @GirlCalledBlu upon being misrepresented.
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Okay. Werewolves have touchstones, just like Vampires do -- and that's FANTASTIC.
It's hard to sneer about the human sheep when you have to call mom every day -- she worries...
“Real magic can never be made by offering someone else's liver. You must tear out your own, and not expect to get it back.”
― Peter S. Beagle, The Last Unicorn -
@The-Tree-of-Woe They're a little different than Vampiric touchstones, but yeah. They're basically just more built in plot hooks. I love it.
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High Primal Urge Drawbacks: Limited Diet, Longer Death Rage, increased need to Hunt (big H hunt, the Siskur-dah).
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Are we risking Power Creep again?
Given that werewolves kind of got neutered in nwod and weren't ever the powerhouses they were supposed to be, I dunno that it qualifies as power creep. They didn't even meet the baseline before, outside of very specific examples, so it's more like power adjustment.
I'd have liked to see some of their innate abilities tied in scale to their proximity to pack, but I'm not sure how you'd do that in a way that wouldn't be a mess to deal with. I sort of like the idea that on a scale of one to ten with an adult human as a 3, an individual vampire is a 7 or 8, and an individual werewolf is a 5 or 6, but in a pack each individual werewolf is a 9 or 10 and thus a pack of them is off the chart. i.e. not just the threat of multiple assailants, but each individual assailant being boosted by the presence of the others.
That'd also serve to sort of preserve the Vampires Are Badass, as a lone wolf probably wouldn't want to tangle with a lone vampire, but even a group of vampires wouldn't want to tangle with a pack of werewolves, even if their numbers were even or slightly better.
Bonus points if it's something that could apply to non-werewolf pack members. Hell, even if it was just that you get a bonus to contested rolls or effective resistance traits when in proximity to or working directly with your pack mates. That'd also give mages more reason to be wary of antagonizing werewolf packs, if their pack bond made them more resistant to magical interference/influence/etc.
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You still sort of get exactly what you're talking about here, it's just not innate. Reading through the Gifts, Rites, and Merits, you start seeing that a lot of them rely on having a pack to work off of. I would hate to be anyone facing a pack of Uratha whom each have high Pack Dynamics Merits. That shit is fucking terrifying. It may not look like much, until you remember Grappling can be a Teamwork Action, and then you imagine 2-4 Uratha in Dalu grappling you while the last one shifts to Gauru right in front of you.
I mean fuck. And there's loads and lods of Gifts that help you based on which and how many Packmates are around you. So yeah, it's not innate, but if that's your jam, you can get your desired effect.
"Excuse the hell out of you. He's a bag of dicks. I'm a carefully curated box of cocks." -- to @GirlCalledBlu upon being misrepresented.
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@HelloRaptor said:
Are we risking Power Creep again?
Given that werewolves kind of got neutered in nwod and weren't ever the powerhouses they were supposed to be, I dunno that it qualifies as power creep. They didn't even meet the baseline before, outside of very specific examples, so it's more like power adjustment.
I'd have liked to see some of their innate abilities tied in scale to their proximity to pack, but I'm not sure how you'd do that in a way that wouldn't be a mess to deal with. I sort of like the idea that on a scale of one to ten with an adult human as a 3, an individual vampire is a 7 or 8, and an individual werewolf is a 5 or 6, but in a pack each individual werewolf is a 9 or 10 and thus a pack of them is off the chart. i.e. not just the threat of multiple assailants, but each individual assailant being boosted by the presence of the others.
That'd also serve to sort of preserve the Vampires Are Badass, as a lone wolf probably wouldn't want to tangle with a lone vampire, but even a group of vampires wouldn't want to tangle with a pack of werewolves, even if their numbers were even or slightly better.
Bonus points if it's something that could apply to non-werewolf pack members. Hell, even if it was just that you get a bonus to contested rolls or effective resistance traits when in proximity to or working directly with your pack mates. That'd also give mages more reason to be wary of antagonizing werewolf packs, if their pack bond made them more resistant to magical interference/influence/etc.
Vegeta, what's the scouter say about his power level?
I'm a rodeo clown.
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@tragedyjones said:
@HelloRaptor said:
Are we risking Power Creep again?
Given that werewolves kind of got neutered in nwod and weren't ever the powerhouses they were supposed to be, I dunno that it qualifies as power creep. They didn't even meet the baseline before, outside of very specific examples, so it's more like power adjustment.
I'd have liked to see some of their innate abilities tied in scale to their proximity to pack, but I'm not sure how you'd do that in a way that wouldn't be a mess to deal with. I sort of like the idea that on a scale of one to ten with an adult human as a 3, an individual vampire is a 7 or 8, and an individual werewolf is a 5 or 6, but in a pack each individual werewolf is a 9 or 10 and thus a pack of them is off the chart. i.e. not just the threat of multiple assailants, but each individual assailant being boosted by the presence of the others.
That'd also serve to sort of preserve the Vampires Are Badass, as a lone wolf probably wouldn't want to tangle with a lone vampire, but even a group of vampires wouldn't want to tangle with a pack of werewolves, even if their numbers were even or slightly better.
Bonus points if it's something that could apply to non-werewolf pack members. Hell, even if it was just that you get a bonus to contested rolls or effective resistance traits when in proximity to or working directly with your pack mates. That'd also give mages more reason to be wary of antagonizing werewolf packs, if their pack bond made them more resistant to magical interference/influence/etc.
Vegeta, what's the scouter say about his power level?
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