May 21, 2017, 6:26 PM
@bored Uhh I'm saying the exact opposite of that. That games where people are absolutely horrible and toxic are the minority, and the belief that it's the norm is ridiculous.
Fading Suns 2017
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@HelloProject said in Fading Suns 2017:
@bored I don't know about "any other game", since that shit seems pretty unique to WoD and that specific Fading Suns game, and I'm assuming Firan
... and to every L&L game, and to Pern games, and to ...
I mean, if you play with some awesome other genre of people who are totally immune to this high school shit, by all means, invite them along with you to some of our 'inferior' games and show us how to behave? Sarcasm aside, this is just normal (if shitty) human behavior.
Yep. The mousse bit was classic Paulus just clearly not really giving a shit.
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SparklesTheClown Creator Banned last edited by SparklesTheClown May 21, 2017, 11:19 AM May 21, 2017, 11:18 AM
@bored I've been on 100+ games and I can assure you that this behavior is the minority, being decent and not a literal monster is not some unique special snowflake thing.
There's always at least one or two shitty players, but for most of a game being that way? Yeah, no.
If it bothers you that toxic behavior isn't the norm, then I don't know what to tell you.
I do, however, find your exaggerated pessimistic outlook on human behavior to be rather depressing, so I'm gonna eject.
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' I've been on 100+ games' -- looks like you've never been to Cybersphere or anywhere fun, to be quite honest. Also, that sounds like you're a master of gorilla warfare with 300+ confirmed kills.
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SparklesTheClown Creator Banned last edited by SparklesTheClown May 21, 2017, 4:51 PM May 21, 2017, 4:48 PM
@deadculture If the implication is that "anywhere fun" = "a culture of player toxicity", then yes, I have, pretty early on, and then decided that I don't hate myself.
Funny how that works.
I guess it's my millennial entitlement.
edit: Sorry, there are 246 games in my current world folder since I switched to MUSHClient (meaning there are a bunch of games I don't have a record of), so I guess I was being modest.
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Fun is entirely subjective.
Player Toxicity also in a way because people have different tolerance levels so what is toxic to one person, may not be to another.
The key to enjoying any game though is finding out how much you can put up with, and developing the ability to find those who you enjoy playing with and making it work.
No game is perfect.
No game is even great for everyone.
Hello! Long time listener, first time caller...
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@Lithium I feel like it's kind of bleak to feel as if the bare minimum you can hope for is to just "make it work". Like damn, imagine if we applied the same standards to food.
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@HelloProject @ first world problem.
That is really what it comes down to though. Can you make it work, or can you not?
If you can a game can be fun, if you can't, move on and find a game that can be fun.
It's sort of like anything really, there will never be anything that everybody likes, 100% approval. Just not going to happen because people's tastes are different.
Trying to force a square peg into a round hole is just... silly imho.
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@HelloProject said in Fading Suns 2017:
@bored I've been on 100+ games and I can assure you that this behavior is the minority, being decent and not a literal monster is not some unique special snowflake thing.
There's always at least one or two shitty players, but for most of a game being that way? Yeah, no.
So... 'most of the game' were 'literal monsters'? Yeah, OK. You're definitely not in crazy hyperbole territory, or anything. Please show us the way, sensei! Since apparently we're all fucking moron barbarians here while you're playing thousands of wonderful games with no problems?
...
Getting away from the crazy here, I feel like this is the kind of discussion that makes getting anywhere useful in the hobby impossible. I'm probably guilty of it, and I'm sure I've been more critical of both Custodius and even Paulus in prior threads on this topic. But it's silly to talk about games like they're full of monstrous evil people and kind of an abdication of personal responsibility.
Weirdly, I think that SC was a better game than the average. It was far more interesting and had way more activity and crap going than a contemporary analogue like 5th World. A hell of a lot happened in a short period of time, and the 'literally monstrous' toxicity included a lot of active politics, war stories, etc. If anything, I think it sort of demonstrates how thin the line between greatness and garbage is. Paulus could probably have been ... even 20% less of a jerk, not invited (or asked to leave) a single problem player, and it could have gone on a year more easily. And I'd probably take a year or two of solid plots and fairly active politics over 5 years of 'PrP sandbox WoD game/Generic FS3 L&L #152'.
And since @packrat is around and was involved, maybe he has some ideas for recapturing some of the magic without the suck.
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SparklesTheClown Creator Banned last edited by SparklesTheClown May 21, 2017, 6:28 PM May 21, 2017, 6:26 PM
@bored Uhh I'm saying the exact opposite of that. That games where people are absolutely horrible and toxic are the minority, and the belief that it's the norm is ridiculous.
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@bored Yeah, to be absolutely fair, Paulus could tell a terrific story when he wanted to. He had a good sense of plotline pacing and maybe the control freak in him was actually good in turning out those into an organic progression.
SC was certainly NOT full of monsters, although I argue that I am a monster. Thankfully, I tend not to join any games anymore, so people can rest assured my particular brand of monstrosity doesn't make the rounds anymore.
The word 'toxic' is so overused these days it's not funny. It's a way to move goalposts whenever an idea or an argument gets too uncomfortable for you. Guess what: in the real world, everything can potentially kill you. That includes oxygen. There are certainly bad people around, but to attribute one's shitty experience to anyone else but oneself, well, you know what they say when everybody else is the asshole.
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And, as usual, the urge to bash people overcomes reading comprehension to the extent it makes a complete fool of people.
I guess some things never change.
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That's a somewhat underhanded remark. Say what you mean, or don't.
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@bored said in Fading Suns 2017:
Weirdly, I think that SC was a better game than the average.
Then I truly pity your MU* career. I can honestly say without hyperbole that Star Crusade was the worst game I lasted more than one scene on.
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@deadculture said in Fading Suns 2017:
Say what you mean, or don't.
Pretty sure I did precisely that.
That it failed to pass the comprehension check is as entertaining as it was predictable.
Oh fucking well.
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@surreality I'll take passive aggression to be what you wanted to get across, then.
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@deadculture Sure thing.
@bored said in Fading Suns 2017:
@HelloProject said in Fading Suns 2017:
@bored I've been on 100+ games and I can assure you that this behavior is the minority, being decent and not a literal monster is not some unique special snowflake thing.
There's always at least one or two shitty players, but for most of a game being that way? Yeah, no.
So... 'most of the game' were 'literal monsters'? Yeah, OK. You're definitely not in crazy hyperbole territory, or anything. Please show us the way, sensei! Since apparently we're all fucking moron barbarians here while you're playing thousands of wonderful games with no problems?
^ I just find this fucking hilarious. Probably good to preserve it before it gets edited to hide the stupid.
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@deadculture This is the point where @surreality, despite claiming she has me on ignore, follows me around snarking at my posts.
Because she's a mature, well-balanced adult, you know?
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@bored Nah, I just saw the comment and decided to take a look, because it seemed destined to be funny, and, you know, more of the same shit I've seen from you before. But that was gold, man. Gold.
You can try to divert from your boneheaded bullshit like this, but it's not going to work; safe for posterity now.
Fun definition of toxic: so dedicated to being a negative fuckwit and maintaining a false sense of superiority that one loses the ability to read what's on the screen right in front of them and resorts to increasingly desperate ploys to divert attention from their own failures by slinging dirt at others.
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@deadculture said in Fading Suns 2017:
@bored Yeah, to be absolutely fair, Paulus could tell a terrific story when he wanted to. He had a good sense of plotline pacing and maybe the control freak in him was actually good in turning out those into an organic progression.
Assuming it wasn't one of the stories that were submitted to Paulus for approval and then Paulus just straight up stole the story and took credit after rejecting them.
But I'm guessing anyone who has a problem with that is an entitled special snowflake.
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@bored This is a good showcase as to why I don't join any games anymore. Everyone has their mental and physical scars, but I don't have to rub salve on them. It's better to just keep busy with reality, as unnerving as it is.
@HelloProject No, that's the only part of your post that I'd agree with, in essence. It was a failing on his part not to credit you for the idea, at the very least. But then you're merely relaying a fact, not posting about your subjective perception of the people who played Star Crusade.
World of difference, see?