Fanbase entitlement

[Insomnia]

I think these posts sum up fanbase entitlement perfectly; people are only allowed to like things, if they like it the right way.

[Karmageddon]

@Insomnia
Eh. If a person wearing a Nirvana t-shirt can't even name one Nirvana song, I will negatively judge them. I am past the stage of being a dick about it, though.

Now, if the girl's "..." was in response to the guy escalating his questions (and no doubt behaving like a condescending ass), I'll give her a pass.

[Insomnia]

@Karmageddon Oh yeah, it's not so much the judgeyness, but the assholeness of it.

[surreality]

Yeah, for a bit of that, it's like... fuck, someone who was crap with names and knew every song by heart could have that same problem.

[Ganymede]

@Karmageddon said in Fanbase entitlement:

Eh. If a person wearing a Nirvana t-shirt can't even name one Nirvana song, I will negatively judge them. I am past the stage of being a dick about it, though.

If a person is wearing a shirt with an Autobot or Decepticon symbol on it, I feel obligated to quiz them to name first generation Transformers. If they cannot name a dozen, I know they are posers.

So far, everyone's a fucking poser.

I hate people.

I mean, at the very least -- a /dozen/. That's all I ask. It's not like I'm asking you to name the three original Decepticon jets.

[Thenomain]

That's our @Ganymede, keeping the world clear of Fake Geeks.

[Ganymede]

@Thenomain said in Fanbase entitlement:

That's our @Ganymede, keeping the world clear of Fake Geeks.

Fake geeks? Fuck you all.

If you grew up in the 80s, you know how big Transformers were. Then there was the 90s, when it was Pokémon.

And then there's the goddamned new movies, which use the name of classic first generation Transformers.

Wearing a Nirvana t-shirt with no knowledge of their songs? Super fuck you.

[Roz]

I grew up in a pretty Transformers-obsessed household (one of my brothers went through a period of time when he only responded to the name Optimus Prime), have seen the movie a bunch of times, have seen a good amount of the G1 series along with a few other series, read the current IDW comics, staff an IDW Transformers game. I was actually just trying to name G1 Autobots because a couple at a party I was at were talking about how they were at a trivia night where one of the questions was naming all 18 of the original season 1 Autobots. I don't know if I got up to 12. (I tried to get clarification if the Dinobots counted, because they weren't on the original crew and were created later in the season, but the couple was very unhelpful.) Sometimes names are hard, and sometimes they don't come to mind immediately even if you know the answer.

I do know that even if I didn't get up to 12, I can still wear a fucking Autobot or Decepticon shirt if I fucking want and I don't actually have to be able to name any of them.

If the idea of someone wearing a t-shirt with artwork of a show, band, comic, movie, whatever without being able to answer an unsolicited pop quiz about the product is so offensive to you that you are actually compelled to quiz them about their clothing, then you are the problem, not the person who put on a t-shirt because they liked the t-shirt. Logos aren't sacred. T-shirts don't require an exam.

Especially because women are the targets of this like one thousand times more than men are.

Maybe the girl with the Nirvana shirt loves the music but never bothered to memorize the band member names because that wasn't the important part to her, and maybe she was getting fed up at getting increasingly condescended to.

This probably looks like a somewhat explosive response, but I am like 200000% done with t-shirt quizzes and fandom gatekeepers. Someone wearing a shirt and possibly knowing nothing about the product does not actually affect your relationship with the product.

[Ganymede]

@Roz said in Fanbase entitlement:

This probably looks like a somewhat explosive response, but I am like 200000% done with t-shirt quizzes and fandom gatekeepers. Someone wearing a shirt and possibly knowing nothing about the product does not actually affect your relationship with the product.

You're absolutely right, of course. This is a reasonable position to take.

However, there was a time that the litmus test to figure out who to trust or not revolved around this sort of lore. You know, back in the day when some of us banded together to avoid the wrath of bullies and other sorts of ne'er-do-wells. We didn't have much pride in ourselves, but we knew who belonged and who didn't based on what they knew about esoteric topics.

Patton Oswalt has a long rant about the death of geekdom, and he does a better job of expressing that opinion than I.

That said, I usually start with the mini-bots: Brawn (Jeep); Bumblebee (VW Bug), Cliffjumper (Still can't figure it out); Gears (Ditto); Huffer (A tiny truck); and Windcharger (Dodge Challenger). Then there's the normal sized Autobots: Wheeljack (Race car); Trailbreaker (SUV); Mirage (F-1 Car); Jazz (Race car); Hound (Jeep); Bluestreak (Datsun Sport Coupe); Prowl (Police Cruiser, if it were a Datsun Sport Coupe); Sunstreak (Lamborghini); Sideswipe (Another Lamborghini); Ironhide (Van); and Ratchet (Ambulance Van). Add Optimus Prime (Tractor with Trailer), and you've got the original 18.

[Roz]

@Ganymede said in Fanbase entitlement:

@Roz said in Fanbase entitlement:

This probably looks like a somewhat explosive response, but I am like 200000% done with t-shirt quizzes and fandom gatekeepers. Someone wearing a shirt and possibly knowing nothing about the product does not actually affect your relationship with the product.

You're absolutely right, of course. This is a reasonable position to take.

However, there was a time that the litmus test to figure out who to trust or not revolved around this sort of lore. You know, back in the day when some of us banded together to avoid the wrath of bullies and other sorts of ne'er-do-wells. We didn't have much pride in ourselves, but we knew who belonged and who didn't based on what they knew about esoteric topics.

I do understand that there's a lot of protectiveness in a lot of geek circles that comes from having been bullied and abused growing up for being a geek.

I don't have much patience for "I was bullied as a kid so now I'm going to bully other people as an adult," though.

That said, I usually start with the mini-bots: Brawn (Jeep); Bumblebee (VW Bug), Cliffjumper (Still can't figure it out); Gears (Ditto); Huffer (A tiny truck); and Windcharger (Dodge Challenger). Then there's the normal sized Autobots: Wheeljack (Race car); Trailbreaker (SUV); Mirage (F-1 Car); Jazz (Race car); Hound (Jeep); Bluestreak (Datsun Sport Coupe); Prowl (Police Cruiser, if it were a Datsun Sport Coupe); Sunstreak (Lamborghini); Sideswipe (Another Lamborghini); Ironhide (Van); and Ratchet (Ambulance Van). Add Optimus Prime (Tractor with Trailer), and you've got the original 18.

Sorry, you're no longer allowed to wear any Transformers-related clothing or call yourself a Transformers fan, because you didn't spell Sunstreaker's name right. Sorry, I'm sure you had a good run.

[Ganymede]

@Roz said in Fanbase entitlement:

I don't have much patience for "I was bullied as a kid so now I'm going to bully other people as an adult," though.

I didn't say anything about bullying them, did I? No. I said they were posers, which was a distinction back when.

Sorry, you're no longer allowed to wear any Transformers-related clothing or call yourself a Transformers fan, because you didn't spell Sunstreaker's name right. Sorry, I'm sure you had a good run.

But I named 12, which was the point I made before, right? Right. And, again: it's not that I ask people to name the three original jets (Thundercracker; Skywarp; and Starscream). I'd also consider the Dinobots part of the first generation, but not in the 18 that the question seemed to want.

And I'd only ask for a dozen of the first generation characters. You could add the Decepticons to the mix too: Megatron, Soundwave, the 5 tapes, the 3 jets, Shockwave. Heck, if you can recall Reflector, I'd give triple-credit for that.

[Roz]

@Ganymede said in Fanbase entitlement:

@Roz said in Fanbase entitlement:

I don't have much patience for "I was bullied as a kid so now I'm going to bully other people as an adult," though.

I didn't say anything about bullying them, did I? No. I said they were posers, which was a distinction back when.

Maybe not you specifically, but it's wrapped up in a sort of attitude that plenty of people use as justification to totally harass other people.

Also not super interested in distinctions "back when." Just be a nice person now? Stop quizzing people about their t-shirts??

Sorry, you're no longer allowed to wear any Transformers-related clothing or call yourself a Transformers fan, because you didn't spell Sunstreaker's name right. Sorry, I'm sure you had a good run.

But I named 12, which was the point I made before, right? Right. And, again: it's not that I ask people to name the three original jets (Thundercracker; Skywarp; and Starscream). I'd also consider the Dinobots part of the first generation, but not in the 18 that the question seemed to want.

The three jets are way easier to name than 12 Autobots though.

Also you keep editing and I keep having to update my quotes!!!

[Thenomain]

@Ganymede said in Fanbase entitlement:

@Thenomain said in Fanbase entitlement:

That's our @Ganymede, keeping the world clear of Fake Geeks.

Fake geeks? Fuck you all.

If you grew up in the 80s, you know how big Transformers were. Then there was the 90s, when it was Pokémon.

And then there's the goddamned new movies, which use the name of classic first generation Transformers.

Wearing a Nirvana t-shirt with no knowledge of their songs? Super fuck you.

You can like something without being obsessed with it, and "able to name twelve Transformers" isn't liking Transformers, that's being part of the fan base. Judging someone because they don't know as much as you do about it is accusing them of being Not A Fan, the same kind of malarkey we had kind of recently with Fake Gamer Girls. The Transformers icons are pretty damn cool so why not wear them or put them on your car?

People want to associate with things they enjoy, whether it's a sound or a look, but because they don't know every word to "All Apologies" they're not allowed to wear the band T-Shirt?

No, good sir, fuck you.

[Ganymede]

@Thenomain said in Fanbase entitlement:

Judging someone because they don't know as much as you do about it is accusing them of being Not A Fan, the same kind of malarkey we had kind of recently with Fake Gamer Girls.

I guess so. I don't have a stamp to slam on people's head with my judgment. Are you suggesting I've no right to examine someone's level of knowledge to figure out if they are a fan or not? If so, how'm I to figure out if I should geek out with someone or simply share beers with them and talk about the Jackets?

People want to associate with things they enjoy, whether it's a sound or a look, but because they don't know every word to "All Apologies" they're not allowed to wear the band T-Shirt?

It's funny you should mention that; I was at the KISS concert yesterday night in Dayton. Talk about superfans! And they appeared to be having fun talking with others that shared the same love, the same level of fandom. Not being a KISS scholar myself, I still enjoyed talking with people thirty-years my senior about how many KISS concerts they've been to.

So, when I see someone wearing a Transformers t-shirt, I always hope to meet another fan. Most of the time, they're mostly into the new comics, haven't seen the original movie, or any of the original series. But if they can name a dozen of the originals, I know I can talk to them about the original series, and maybe belt out a few lines of The Touch.

But, yeah, if you're wearing a Nirvana t-shirt, and not know anything about the band, I will get judge-y. I've met more than one person who didn't realize that Kurt Cobain died.

[Thenomain]

@Ganymede

That's a more measured response, but I do not consider "can name twelve Nirvana songs" the same as "doesn't know anything about the band".

(Please note what I did there, because the two examples were so radically different that I was getting brain cramps trying to work out how they related. I was also considering, "can name twelve Transformers is not the same as not knowing that Optimus Prime died.")

[Roz]

@Ganymede said in Fanbase entitlement:

@Thenomain said in Fanbase entitlement:

Judging someone because they don't know as much as you do about it is accusing them of being Not A Fan, the same kind of malarkey we had kind of recently with Fake Gamer Girls.

I guess so. I don't have a stamp to slam on people's head with my judgment. Are you suggesting I've no right to examine someone's level of knowledge to figure out if they are a fan or not? If so, how'm I to figure out if I should geek out with someone or simply share beers with them and talk about the Jackets?

Have a conversation that doesn't involve a quiz? Go "Yeah Autobots! Love the G1 stuff, how about you?" Like, the idea that you can only get this information through quizzing them about a roster of characters is honestly fucking baffling me right now. It's seems like such a fundamentally skewed perspective to a very basic social tenet: Just talk to people in a friendly manner and swap interests.

You figure out what people like by asking them. You can also "know I can talk to them about the original series" if you just ask if they're into it. Giving people quizzes is inherently judgmental; sharing what you're into and asking what the other person is into is a conversation.

And hell, plenty of people will set you up practically begging you to quiz them by being like YEAH I LOVE TRANSFORMERS I'M THE BIGGEST FAN EVER. I get that there's a place for friendly fandom competitiveness and throwing down trivia back and forth. But using it as a measure to simply figure out if the person is into the same thing as you is just a bad idea.

[WTFE]

Remember that video about how it's OK to not like things?

I think it's time for "It's OK to like things" as a counterpart.

Holy fuck, the crazy of the fans is infecting this very thread now.

[Three-Eyed Crow]

@Ganymede said in Fanbase entitlement:

But, yeah, if you're wearing a Nirvana t-shirt, and not know anything about the band, I will get judge-y. I've met more than one person who didn't realize that Kurt Cobain died.

I feel like the Nirvana thing is generational, and it's one of those touch-points that drives home that I am getting old. I was in junior high when Nirvana was coming up, and I'll admit it's weird to see teens and college students in Nirvana t-shirts now. I don't really care if they're a True Fan or not (music snobs are maybe my least favorite kind of snobs), but it's weird.

The Get Off My Lawn mentality combines with the geek bully mentality in many cases and spirals into...deeply unpleasant people, basically.

[Karmageddon]

I still believe that if someone can't name, at the very least, "Smells Like Teen Spirit," "Come As You Are," and player's choice of "In Bloom," "Lithium," "Polly," or "Heart-Shaped Box," they are dipshits for wearing a Nirvana t-shirt.

[Ganymede]

@Roz said in Fanbase entitlement:

Have a conversation that doesn't involve a quiz? Go "Yeah Autobots! Love the G1 stuff, how about you?" Like, the idea that you can only get this information through quizzing them about a roster of characters is honestly fucking baffling me right now. It's seems like such a fundamentally skewed perspective to a very basic social tenet: Just talk to people in a friendly manner and swap interests.

You seem to think I would be gauche enough to actually demand that someone wearing a shirt name a dozen G1 characters. I'm sorry if I gave you this impression; I'm actually quite friendly. I can do the quiz easily and obliquely, although it usually pops up when, as you put it, the t-shirt bearer practically begs the quiz. And, again, every single person so far has failed to meet that mark.

So, I end up talking about other things, which is just fine. Mentally and quietly, though, a box has been marked.

---

@Three-Eyed-Crow said in Fanbase entitlement:

I don't really care if they're a True Fan or not * * * .

I do, I guess. I can figure out if someone fits my definition of a "fan" or not in areas that I'm also a fan.

There are folks, though, that hold themselves out as a True Fan. You know those folks, like the people who recite quotes from The Wealth of Nations, but have no idea why those quotes should not be pulled out of context. Or those who claim that the free market fixes everything, yet are opposed to the TPP. That claim to be huge fans of Nirvana the band, but don't know who Dave Grohl is.

Go ahead and wear the merchandise if you want. Just don't try and convince me that you know everything about the band, okay?