The State of the Chronicles of Darkness
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nWoD vampire, for instance, doesn't have any case of Camarilla versus Sabbat.
Carthians don't -have- to hate Invictus. It's all ifs and maybes, definable by the players/game runners. Odds are if you provide players without strictly defined boundaries, they're going to stretch things just as far as they can. It's human nature to want to be special.
In oWoD, you could have Cammie/Sabbat star-crossed lovers and fluffysextimes on the side all you want, but if you get caught you're going to get ashed.
In nWoD, you can have Invictus/Carthian star-crossed lovers and whatever the game's theme, people are gonna shrug and say 'whatever'.
By it's very nature of needing to be defined by the players/staff, nWoD will inherently be less defined than oWoD. In oWoD, a duck is a duck. In nWoD, a duck is whatever you want a duck to be.
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@HelloRaptor said:
Conflict between factions within the same larger organization isn't a substitute for conflict with other organizations.
What larger organization? Kindred society? Covenants aren't subsects of one big overarcing sect or organization.
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^
Seriously. People still play it this way on MU*s, maybe, because we've gone over how everyone is a fucking dinosaur who hates change like a bajillion times at this point already. But even the default assumption for covenants is basically "uneasy truce." They can be completely antagonistic towards one another on the same basic shoot on sight level that the Camarilla and Sabbat could be, and absolutely are in some of the example cities.
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Note that in Requiem 2nd edition, one of the perks of the Carthian movement is that you can more easily claim dual membership in any other covenant, including the Invictus. It's represented by a merit.
I know that in every Requiem genre I've ever played in, even when initially set up as an alliance, relations between the Sanctified and the Invictus always wound up going completely to shit.
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I believe the 'larger organization/faction' he speaks of in that context would be the Praxis as a whole.
My issue is more that unless there is player/staff support for it, you cannot play an 'evil' vampire on an nWoD MU*. With oWoD MU*s there was the chance or option of either having both Cam and Sabbat as playable, or one or the other. So you could, theoretically, have a wholly Sabbat game. This option simply does not exist in nWoD. There's no for sure 'evil' faction that you can play.
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@Miss-Demeanor said:
I believe the 'larger organization/faction' he speaks of in that context would be the Praxis as a whole.
Okay. And I'll counter with: how is that different from OWoD backstabby clan politics and craziness of the OWoD? It's not, at the most base level, and THAT works out fine.
My issue is more that unless there is player/staff support for it, you cannot play an 'evil' vampire on an nWoD MU*. With oWoD MU*s there was the chance or option of either having both Cam and Sabbat as playable, or one or the other. So you could, theoretically, have a wholly Sabbat game. This option simply does not exist in nWoD. There's no for sure 'evil' faction that you can play.
Bold emphasis mine. You kinda contradict yourself there. The option exists, just as much as the chance/option of playing a combined Sabbat/Camarilla game was for an OWoD game. It's just as easy to go 'eh, no Sabbat, it's a nightmare' in an OWoD game, as it is to say 'Eh, play Brood! Play VII!' in an NWoD game. It's still up to the ST to allow such and to setup the setting and city and the WHY of the antagonistic groups being playable in a mixed game.
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I don't give a damn about the Clan politics, that still exists in nWoD. My beef is with the lack of a playable evil faction within the nWoD setting.
No, I really don't. You will NEVER see a Brood/VII only Vampire sphere in nWoD, whereas you could and did see solely Sabbat Vampire spheres in oWoD. And no, its not up to the ST. Its up to whomever made the game in the first place. Refer to my previous statement about Sabbat spheres. There is no Sabbat choice in nWoD.
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Honestly, I get annoyed when games allow BSD/Nephandi/Pure/etc. Not only do I AUTOMATICALLY mistrust the motivations of anyone playing one, invariably they seem to wind up getting more staff support, where everyone else is left to founder.
Fuck. That.
The only "antagonist" genre in CWoD I like playing are Sabbat -- they're the only ones that have free will, excluding Technocrats. And Technocrat players are diiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiicks.
“Real magic can never be made by offering someone else's liver. You must tear out your own, and not expect to get it back.”
― Peter S. Beagle, The Last Unicorn -
I am not.
My void engineer was awesome. -
@Miss-Demeanor said:
I don't give a damn about the Clan politics, that still exists in nWoD. My beef is with the lack of a playable evil faction within the nWoD setting.
No, I really don't. You will NEVER see a Brood/VII only Vampire sphere in nWoD, whereas you could and did see solely Sabbat Vampire spheres in oWoD. And no, its not up to the ST. Its up to whomever made the game in the first place. Refer to my previous statement about Sabbat spheres. There is no Sabbat choice in nWoD.
I don't really see how a Brood venue would be that much different from a Sabbat venue. Their book has a setup for them in the same way that the Sabbat books would lead to descriptions, politics, factions and such.
And when I say 'ST' there I mean 'the person who made the game' as a general sweeping term.. But yeah, you could see solely Sabbat games for OWoD. Just like, if someone wanted to go through the trouble of setting it up, you could have a Brood-only game, or a Brood aspect of a mixed game like many 'Sabbat/Cam/Anarch all in the same city' OWoD games. Which is the point: unless there's staff-created and staff-pushed support for it, you won't have those mixed, or a Sabbat-only game.
Because the 'default' is not that does not mean there's no choice for it. It's a choice that people haven't really bothered to explore. But I'll agree to disagree at this point.
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@The-Tree-of-Woe said:
Honestly, I get annoyed when games allow BSD/Nephandi/Pure/etc. Not only do I AUTOMATICALLY mistrust the motivations of anyone playing one, invariably they seem to wind up getting more staff support, where everyone else is left to founder.
Wow. This is usually the opposite of my experience, unless the sphere was founded at the request of a friend of staff, or a staffer themselves. Then what you're seeing is Staff-Friend Bias, and that's a problem on any game.
So. nWoD v 2.0. I hear it's continuing to come out.
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@The-Tree-of-Woe said:
The only "antagonist" genre in CWoD I like playing are Sabbat -- they're the only ones that have free will, excluding Technocrats.
Wait, what?
The Code of Milan sort of ensures that free will is a false construct among the Sabbat. The Vinculum ensures that soldiers don't stray too far.
Maybe I was playing a different game than you, but being a Sabbat was rather antithetical to the concept of "free will." Their motto was: JOIN ME OR DIE COULD YOU DO ANY LESS?!?
“It is better to live doing the things that you like. It is foolish to live within this dream of a world seeing unpleasantness and doing only things that you do not like.” -- Yamamoto Tsunetomo.
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@Ganymede Compare the Vinculum to BSDs and Nephandi, who all but literally have a tentacle up their asses directing their actions.
It is a binding factor, yes -- but it's loyalty allowing for a wide latitude of decision making -- you'll die for someone you have a high vinculum rating to, but you won't die at their command.
There is a world of difference, there.
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Werewolf: the Forsaken Second Edition is now available for purchase.
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I just came.
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(@_____@)
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Just finished my first read through (with skipping parts that seemed identical) I like it, are a few things I didn't see coming. Werewolf Feeding Restrictions based on Primal Urge was a new one. Generally nothing I see as bad, I am still sceptical to the Prey focus on each Tribe, but I'll let that go eventually.
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THIS IS WHAT WE WERE WAITING FOR @Arkandel
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From Werewolf 2nd Edition
PACK BEATS
Werewolves are pack hunters, and the actions of one hunter frequently benefit her packmates more than her. If the whole group agrees, consider using pack Beats. Under this system, all of the Beats earned during a given chapter go into a pot (you may want to use poker chips or spare dice to represent them). At the end of the chapter, split the Beats evenly among all of the players.Hah! Neat. >_>
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Would be easy enough to do on a MUX, I suppose. All +beats collected by members of a pack go into a pool and every week or so it's split evenly amongst all the members who're active?
How do the Uratha 2.0 measure up against vampires? Are we risking Power Creep again?
