Eldritch - A World of Darkness MUX

[Arkandel]

@Coin said:

@Arkandel said:

But nothing can be done about it.

I think the best reaction to this sort of thing is to tell the person this. Just be like, "Look, this kind of soured me because you have no reason to tell me all of these secrets about this sphere and you're not really trying to cloud it in mystery or give it any sort of respect in context, so I'm just gonna go."

Sometimes people get the point. Other times they don't. But sometimes. Just sooooometimes.

Besides, if we do nothing every single time there's nothing can be done because we don't actually do anything.

Two reasons.

1. Because I don't want to be that guy. I don't like generating friction, there's enough drama out there.

2. Because it's my peeve. For all I know someone else doesn't mind or even likes that stuff. It's not wrong per se, they aren't crossing lines or (afaik) using OOC information, they just fail to meet my completely arbitrary standards for roleplaying. I'm not sure that gives me the right to chide them for it, you know?

... but it's mostly (1).

[Three-Eyed Crow]

On the one hand, fear of generating friction is what leads to a large number of problems in the MU* environment.

On the other hand, most players who would actually benefit from it are so bad at taking even the mildest constructive criticism that I've just ceased to bother (and I'm well aware that criticism some people think is constructive actually isn't, but that's neither here nor there). This is a game, and people come in with the mentality that they should be indulged rather than challenged. I've taken to avoiding the players who are worst about this, but I kind of understand it.

[Pyrephox]

@Three-Eyed-Crow said:

People want to be INSTANT BESTIES or INSTANT TWU WUV or INSTANT EVERYTHING on a MUSH. There's no story there, but they want it anyway. It annoys me, and it makes these encounters with PCs who want to tell me their life story feel somehow more shallow, because there's nowhere we can really go from there.

This is certainly one of my biggest issues in most games. I like the slow burn. I like my characters growing to trust, like, or love someone gradually from meaningful interactions in character! That's something that really, really does it for me. So when someone moves from 'we just met' to 'I LOVE YOU FOREVER' and there /isn't/ supernatural mind control involved, I'm a lot less interested (and actually kinda creeped out). Same, honestly, with friendship and trust. Here, I've just met you, so let me tell you everything about me (or give you a free room in my house, or offer to kill someone for you, or whatever), and it doesn't feel...real.

For whatever definition of "real" applies to silly online games.

[Glitch]

I don't mind the slow buildup of trust and relationships, but there's one situation where it does tend to bother me. Making a 'super' character and trying to get integrated into your sphere. The personal level stuff I understand, but I think people should be flexible when it comes to giving people openings into their sphere, even if it is some out of town mage you don't know from Adam.

I'm not accusing anyone of doing this, but without BG connections or already established OOC relationships, it can be hard to get integrated. I tend to appreciate the people that might be a little more forthcoming about things than is strictly warranted by their character concept in order to make it possible.

[Arkandel]

New player (and not just character) integration should be at the foremost of any sphere TL. The distinction is important because it's virtually effortless for a player with existent OOC connections to find a place - plenty of times PCs srtaight from CG end up in a coterie/cabal within the day, if in all but name. So that's the easy part.

The best organic way to do this is through plot. On SHH some people were struggling to find reasons to meet (you can only do so much with bar random encounters) so when I started a crossover plot I got 8-9 players per scene, with several of them brand new characters. The key is to not make such PrPs entirely reliant on having a ST present but to encourage people to do research, network IC, talk to each other... then it gains momentum on their own, they hook each other in.

The easy way is to do it through boards but I've never trusted that. Y'know, that old "Ithaeur looking for pack!" posts. Whenever it can be done organically, it should be. Eventually though you're right @Glitch, it does come down to players accommodating each other and easing up on accepting new people into their fold.

[Haven]

As I sought out an emoji for this post, I discovered that there are 8 bajillion available.

It's the little things.

[darksabrz]

@Coin: Question for you -- how exactly are you going to handle Power Stats? I know it's listed as 5xp flat-rate, but is it something one can improve once a month? Once every two months? How will that be handled, seeing as how... well, cheap it is now to improve one's power stats?

[Coin]

@darksabrz said:

@Coin: Question for you -- how exactly are you going to handle Power Stats? I know it's listed as 5xp flat-rate, but is it something one can improve once a month? Once every two months? How will that be handled, seeing as how... well, cheap it is now to improve one's power stats?

You can find that information here. We've actually got a pretty rich set of news files you should peruse.

It's also worth mentioning that while we do follow Reno's pretty high passive weekly Experiences, it doesn't stay that way for long. At a certain point, if you want Experiences, you have to gain and resolve Conditions, fulfill Aspirations, take Dramatic Failures and, of course, participate in plots. This is by design: it allows new characters to catch up while making the dinos slow down and let them, without making it sudden and immediate (like, say, on The Reach). Yes, it might take a while for your new character to catch up to one of the older ones, but all the tools are there for it to be perfectly viable.

There's also a hard cap on the total Experiences a person can gain per week (4) which is a lot, but is also less than what it could be and I think will mitigate XP Inflation at least a tiny bit. (I might be wrong. We'll see.)

[Thenomain]

@Coin said:

We've actually got a pretty rich set of news files you should peruse.

I'd probably flip if I had to read all those files.

... Goddamnit.

[Coin]

@Thenomain
You're so hyperbolic.

[Glitch]

@Coin said:

There's also a hard cap on the total Experiences a person can gain per week (4) which is a lot, but is also less than what it could be and I think will mitigate XP Inflation at least a tiny bit. (I might be wrong. We'll see.)

It is a lot. And you can't go back. Did you know that TR had diminishing returns? 5oxp in GMC is going to get you a lot of goodies and everyone's going to have that within their first six months, without even doing plots or anything for beats. The first year at TR wasn't all that bad XP-wise, people just forget when their new character makes 30xp per week.

I think you need to scale back your XP some, particularly your activity based XP, because you can always add more later if it becomes a real issue. Taking it away is harder. Taking it away from only new people in a year from now to "correct" the issue is even worse (not that I'm suggesting you'd do that, but "grandfathering" in to avoid the tears of current players is not a new idea).

Just look at @RDC's Reno sheet for his character if you want an idea of how things are going to look. That game hasn't even been open a year.

[Coin]

@Glitch, I'm actually okay with active people getting a lot of XP. I'm a lot more okay with it than giving a lot of passive XP to people. That's why the longer a character is on grid, the less passive XP they make and the more they have to be active to gain any. Keeping in mind that the 4 total Experiences include the passive weekly alotted to everyone, which I don't know if I was clear about.

Reno has also been open more than six months and still gain 2 experiences weekly from passive gains, which won't be the case at Eldritch.

I think there's always outliers (Corbin@Reno, as per your example) that push something to the limits of what is intended, but I don't suspect we'll reach The Reach levels of bloat. I might consider cutting it back to 4 month intervals rather than 6. I'm still prodding at things.

Edit to Add: It's also likely we'll cap things at, for example, only 1 Aspiration fulfillment per week, or something to that effect.

[tragedyjones]

Not sure why people are talking about Corbin's sheet as if they know his stats or XP. I will say that he has been around since the game went live, giving him a minimum of 75 XP. 7 Starting and 68 passive. I will also say there are at least two characters I know of with higher total XP. The most any one character could have, is 150, which is indeed a lot but they would need to have been active since launch, made 4 XP a week, had a BG, and gotten the few random gamewide XP bonuses. No one has that much XP.

[Coin]

@tragedyjones
I just used Corbin's sheet because Glitch did. I personally agree with you, though Eldritch would have an even lower XP gain past the 6 month threshold.

[tragedyjones]

True. I guess I jumped into "something's fucky" mode too quick.

[Glitch]

@tragedyjones I'm not bashing Corbin and I've never seen his sheet. But I also know what @RDC will make of a GMC sheet with more than 100 XP and the implied power level of such a sheet. I am not warning against him, just saying that, as @Coin seemed at least somewhat concerned about relative power level, Corbin's sheet is an example of what can, and likely will, be walking around their game in under a year.

[Coin]

@Glitch

Your example lacks power simply because, well, we can't see the sheet. So even if I were concerned about it to the point where I'd want to avoid it, I don't really know what I'd be avoiding. The only thing I know for sure is that he has Defense 12, which is very high, yes, but hardly requires 100 XP to achieve.

[Arkandel]

While @Glitch is correct that it's easier to add XP later than to take it away, it's also true that there are more players who feel comfortable playing with a few extra XP to spend than those who do not. Being stingy early on might inconvenience those players enough to leave, and it's easier to recruit a good playerbase early in a game's launch than to lure newcomers in later if you lack a critical mass of people to play with.

I agree that shifting the balance from a more or less automatically generated XP income to an activity and participation based on later on, allowing engaged newbies to catch up to the oldbies without making it easy or inevitable is a good compromise.

[Please Delete]

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[tragedyjones]

.........................| Rick Blackwood (Werewolf) |.........................
   Birthdate   : May 1 1988              Deed Name   : Gloryhound             
   Virtue      : Bravery                 Tribe       : Iron Masters           
   Vice        : Unfocussed              Auspice     : Cahalith               
 | Mental |............... | Physical |............. | Social |...............
   Intelligence  : 2         Strength      : 4         Presence      : 2      
   Wits          : 3         Dexterity     : 4         Manipulation  : 2      
   Resolve       : 5         Stamina       : 5         Composure     : 4      
 | Mental |............... | Merits |.........................................
   Academics     : 1         Contacts (Actors)                       : 1      
   Computer      : 1         Contacts (Martial Arts Instructors)     : 1      
   Crafts        : 1         Crack Driver                            : 2      
   Investigation : -         Fast Reflexes                           : 1      
   Medicine      : -         Fleet of Foot                           : 1      
   Occult        : -         Indomitable                             : 2      
   Politics      : -         Martial Arts                            : 5      
   Science       : 1         Metabolic Control                       : 2      
 | Physical |.............   Parkour                                 : 3      
   Athletics     : 5         Professional Training (Stuntman)        : 5      
     Running                 Resources                               : 2      
     Gymnastics            | Gifts |..........................................
   Brawl         : 5         Glory Gifts:                                     
     Called Shot               Relentlessness (1)                             
   Drive         : 4           Harvest of Glorious Fury (4)                   
     Motorcycle              Gift of Strength:                                
     Over the Limit            Mighty Bound (2)                               
   Firearms      : 1         Father Wolf's:                                   
   Larceny       : -           Father Wolf's Speed (2)                        
   Stealth       : -           Primal Howl (3)                                
   Survival      : 1       | Rites |..........................................
   Weaponry      : 1                                                          
 | Social |............... | Traits |.........................................
   Animal Ken    : -         Primal Urge: 1                            o      
   Empathy       : 1         Essence: 10                      oooooooooo      
   Expression    : 3         Willpower: 9                      ooooooooo      
     Acting                  Harmony: 7                                       
     One Liners            | Other |..........................................
   Intimidation  : -         Size                                    : 5      
   Persuasion    : 1         Speed                                   : 14     
   Socialize     : 1         Defense                                 : 8      
   Streetwise    : -         Initiative                              : 9      
   Subterfuge    : 1         Experience                              : 7.80   
 | Renown |............... | Health |.........................................
   Purity        : -         [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]                   
 > Glory         : 4                                                          
   Honor         : -                                                          
   Wisdom        : -                                                          
 > Cunning       : 1                                                          
   -------------                                                              
   Honorary Rank : 2                                                          
..................................................| Rick Blackwood (Werewolf) |```