Regarding administration on MSB
-
@arkandel said in Regarding administration on MSB:
@sunny said in Regarding administration on MSB:
THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT THE PEOPLE DISCUSSING THINGS ON THE REASONABLE LEVEL ARE NOT BEING REASONABLE.
What if..
What if...
What if...I DO NOT GIVE A DAMN ABOUT YOUR WHAT IF.
I don't appreciate the all caps.
Can we please tone it down some?
You have lost your damn mind.
When I heard you named Auspice mod, I said 'oh, that's going to be TERRIBLE."
And it is. I'd say she should be told to step down so that she can continue being confrontational and acerbic as a poster, since that is pretty clearly an aspect of this board she enjoys, but...well, no. I'll still say that.
I didn't expect YOU (oh gosh sorry caps) to go full bonehead but here we are.
-
That's a good idea. If you close the Hog Pit I for one will leave. So there's a bonus. Then you can close whichever section bothers Ghost the most, one by one, until nothing is left.
-
@admiral if you see no value in the forum without the Hog Pit, then that would be your decision, but you're helping prove my point.
I would prefer to see people finding ways to work together and be civil, rather than twist statements around into being sideways attacks based on assumptions such as making things the way only one person wants them to be.
C'mon. I think you could have a lot to contribute to something more positive. There's no need for that kind of attitude.
-
@kanye-qwest said in Regarding administration on MSB:
You have lost your damn mind.
I disagree, and listen, I like you. I like @sunny. But you're both kind of making my point. If you're this upset right now, you're not in the right state of mind to be talking about any of this. It doesn't help.
^_______^
(@_____@)
---|---
/\ -
@kanye-qwest said in Regarding administration on MSB:
You have lost your damn mind.
When I heard you named Auspice mod, I said 'oh, that's going to be TERRIBLE."
If you want me to care about what you said, or what you are saying now, you will do well to be civil about it.
If I came to you on Arx about an issue I disagreed with you about, used all caps to address you and then told you you lost your mind when you asked to tone it down a bit, how long would I have left to be on the game?
I ask for no different courtesy than that.
-
@ghost I've been on this board since way back in the WORA days. I've watched it grow and change, but the one thing that always kept it grounded the Hog Pit. If you take that out then you cut out the core of what this community was built on.
Just like gentrifying a neighborhood, you drive out all the locals and replace them with hipsters and lattes.
-
What I'm getting out of some of this is that moderation is fine as long as it's done the way a particular person wants it to be done. Otherwise, moderation is not fine.
Personally, if I was a moderator I'd crack down on blatant trolling, but that's one of my hot button things. If someone is only out for a reaction by being a jerk toward others, I don't have a lot of patience for that.
And yet, while I know the Hog Pit is more of a free-for-all part of the site where insults, sharp criticism, and pretty much anything else goes, that area has value when it comes to trying to address misbehavior by players/admin/staff/whoever. These are the kinds of things that, especially using an Elsa game or UH as examples, can't be discussed in-game without people being punished for it when people in power abuse that power. The Hog Pit is one of the few places things like that can be brought out into the open and, depending on what evidence is out there or what people believe, general conclusions can be reached about what seems to be going on.
I don't know most posters here well enough to have too strong an opinion of who they are as people, what their morals and ethics are, or any of that, but I will say it's a mistake to assume people in general will understand what you mean when you say something and do it in a vague way. You may think what you're saying is clear - God knows I've been there more than once - and someone is stupid for not getting it, but the only one who can make sure what you say is understood is you. Don't make things worse by acting like everyone else just doesn't get it when you say something that gets misinterpreted, and don't give a half-assed apology when you're called on it.
As far as posters having separate moderator accounts or not, I don't think it matters as much as how it's handled. If @Arkandel creates a second account only to use when MOD VOICE is needed, people should know that's his account from the start. It won't fully eliminate the possibility of MOD VOICE being misused in some way, but it's one more step of separation from asking him to pick and choose when he uses MOD VOICE on his personal account. Either way, I could see the potential for suspicion based on when and how MOD VOICE is used, no matter the setup for it.
What's important to remember is we're all MU*ers as well. We're not above conflict, controversy, arguments, in-fighting, and so on just because we have a place here to call it out when we see others do it. An outsider could look at the debate going on here and say "See? These holier-than-thou fucks are no better than the ones they're whining about over and over!" At times, that would be accurate to say. That's not automatically bad, either. It just proves that nobody is perfect, nobody is going to agree about everything, and we all have different personalities and beliefs that sometimes clash.
If we can be better about staying civil and sensible about it, that's the most important thing to me.
-
@wizz I am not upset. I'm home from the clinic, sipping a mocha, and snerking at this. As an admin, when someone brings up a problem and you don't address the problem, instead changing the subject to the way they are expressing themselves*, you are being a bonehead.
*exception being, if they are cursing you out or calling you nasty names or something. Ain't nobody got time to be dealing with that.
@arkandel said in Regarding administration on MSB:
If you want me to care about what you said, or what you are saying now, you will do well to be civil about it.
Ok. What do you have to say about the civil statements I have made in this thread about the issue I brought up? Not threads being moved, or what the moderation should be, because I don't have any feelings about that. I mean specifically about a mod insulting people in the very thread asking for patience while what moderation should look like gets hammered out.
-
@kanye-qwest said in Regarding administration on MSB:
I am not upset. I'm home from the clinic, sipping a mocha, and snerking at this.
...That's...almost worse to me, to be completely honest. If you're deliberately being that hostile and mean about all of this, then you're only proving the people who have been super critical of you here right. (ETA: Which, again, I am not on board with, I usually enjoy seeing you post here, you're hilarious.) I really feel like there really isn't any reason -- in general too, but on this thread and topic in particular in which a lot of people feel really strongly -- to bring the tone of the entire conversation down to that level.
-
@kanye-qwest said in Regarding administration on MSB:
Ok. What do you have to say about the civil statements I have made in this thread about the issue I brought up? Not threads being moved, or what the moderation should be, because I don't have any feelings about that. I mean specifically about a mod insulting people in the very thread asking for patience while what moderation should look like gets hammered out.
There have been several admissions of fault in this thread, by myself and by others. If you are not satisfied with those I don't know that I can help you much further. But you seem to be demanding @Auspice's head, and you won't get it.
I want to make this place better. Those are the things I have feelings about; when people say 'hey, maybe a forum in between what we know as Constructive and the Hog Pit' I like it, because it's a solution. It's something we can implement, set some rules aside, maybe give a try and see how it goes.
But you seem to have a crusade. I have no time for that.
- He who takes offense when not intended is a fool. He who takes offense when intended is a greater fool.
-
This is a clown fiesta. LOL.
-
@arkandel To part of that, I think there needs to be less demanding that people do this or move that or kick so-and-so off or else, complete with "If you don't do what I want, I'm out!" (At least, not without reasonable cause)
That's just petulant. Be better than that.
I don't know what the solution to all of that is, though. There's no one thing that will be perfect for everyone. Even a completely hands-off approach of no modding whatsoever (except, I guess, for dealing with spambots and that sort of thing) that leads to a total free-for-all has its drawbacks, but people shouldn't need someone stepping in with the mod hat on to tell them to grow up when they're acting like spoiled brats in the middle of a temper tantrum with someone else.
Be adults. Deal with shit in a mature, responsible way. Try to understand the other side when possible, when there's a reason to. Be apologetic when it's warranted, even if you (the general 'you') don't think it is. Admitting "Hey, maybe I messed up there" doesn't make you a bad person. It doesn't make you weak. It means you're willing to own up to something. It's easy for us to get up in arms and grab the pitchforks and torches when we see a wrong committed, but going straight to that isn't always the best course of action.
It doesn't have to be much more complicated than that.
Or, as it was once suggested:
-
@wolfs said in Regarding administration on MSB:
@arkandel To part of that, I think there needs to be less demanding that people do this or move that or kick so-and-so off or else, complete with "If you don't do what I want, I'm out!" (At least, not without reasonable cause)
That's just petulant. Be better than that.
There are very few people I want to not see on MSB, and none of them are on this thread. I mean that. We have some really bad people in the community in general, they occupy entire threads, and it seems really wasteful to just turn on each other like we need someone to fight or else it's just not as much fun.
I don't even expect us to be excellent to each other, just to be... dunno, adults. If we go too far to take a step back, realize we had a bad moment, say 'hey, sorry, my bad' and just move the fuck on from that. It really frustrates me if we need rules and threats of punishments just to not tear into each other - it says something about us I don't like.
-
I've been entrusted with forum moderator positions before and I think the moderation here will be fine after details have been ironed out, but there is little else more irritating than someone in authority who doesn't seem inclined to follow their own rules and guidelines. You'll be criticized as a moderator because people don't like to be told no - and you'll likely have to hold back that tendency to tell them how ridiculous they're being, otherwise you undermine yourself. If @Auspice continues to get defensive and insulting when she attempts to moderate and people question her decision, then it's something that warrants reconsidering, but I'm... not sure if it's at that point yet.
We'll see, I guess. My two cents. Take it or leave it.
-
@ganymede said in Regarding administration on MSB:
MOD VOICE
I think we're treading away from being helpful. Let's go back to talking about ways we can fix moderating.
As I said, we're working on things. Arkandel has asked me to prepare a "Rules of Engagement v 2.0" for the forum. The draft is made and being wrangled over. Part of it includes something on this topic.
Pointing out general spread insults is not helpful?
When discussing varying points of view, using words like "obtuse" to describe people isn't helpful either. It suggests, flatly, that only the moderator opinions count from now on. Something you all are trying to dance around and suggest you don't want.
Yet there it is, one mod says something that's not exactly on the mark, someone else calls it out, and bam! Oh look. Mod voice. Everyone not agreeing with the mod is wrong.
So much for constructive criticism is approved.
You know, this whole thread is a dumpster fire at this point.
-
@auspice Sorry. But if I continually suggested to those under me I am responsible for, that if someone does not understand a certain comment that they are "stupid" or "obtuse", its beyond attacking an idea or concept, and I'd be in deep shit.
You suggested only YOUR concept is the appropriate one. And as a member of the board, that is your right! However, when your fellow moderator jumps on the rest of us disagreeing with your concept, and being labeled as stupid for not appreciating/understanding it?
We all bitch about dog-piles, and it doesn't matter if there is only 3 mods, or 30. Not calling this shit out publicly, like any other member of the boards suggests being complacent with behavior. Now were this a work place? then by all means pulling someone aside privately would be more appropriate.
Some folks apparently need to be reminded. This is not a work place. This is a discussion forum on the internet!
-
@Templari Some of us don't have an issue with current events? I won't be hauled into your justice because you feel like your sense of it is right and you don't get to imply that because I won't rally to your flag I'm somehow wrong or complacent with bad behavior.
-
@templari said in Regarding administration on MSB:
Pointing out general spread insults is not helpful?
It's helpful if I can't see it. It's not helpful if I'm standing right there, watching what happened.
-
So. Plans are being made and discussions are being had. While these are going on, I'll just say one thing: IGU.
Some of you will be thinking 'Huh?' which is exactly my point. There's a reason why WORA has lasted so long in whatever form and Idealistic Gamers Unite went the way of the dodo a long time ago despite being contemporaries of each other.
While I don't want to see the bad old days return in force, neither do I want to see this board become... bland. The day it does is the day it dies. Better to err on the side of vitriol.
-
@tnp said in Regarding administration on MSB:
Some of you will be thinking 'Huh?' which is exactly my point. There's a reason why WORA has lasted so long in whatever form and Idealistic Gamers Unite went the way of the dodo a long time ago despite being contemporaries of each other.
clears throat
IGU came on the heels of SWOFA, if my memory serves me. WORA came along after IGU was mothballed.
Point taken, though.
