Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.

[SparklesTheClown]

@Ghost said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

@HelloProject Online gaming (not MU but stuff like Among Us and other social games) have been good throughout quarantine. Plus they require mics so there's more of a sense of human contact.

It's not that I don't have a bulk of people, it's more I feel I"m lacking my deeper connections lately. Feels like everyone I'm close to is missing. Not sure if that's just my imagination or not. Been feeling that lately.

[Ghost]

@HelloProject Connection has a subjective focal point. I get the same stuff, too. I know I have people around me all of the time but there are times where I feel that maybe I'm not as close to them as I used to feel I was. When that happens I know a lot of it is in my own head, so don't let it be a thread into a deeper depression. It's totally normal-type feeling for the "quarantine era".

Right up to quarantine I was a house party every month, in-person gaming, coffee house hangouts after work. I'm a social motherfucker, so having that go from 5-10 things going on a week to not seeing these people for months at a time really laid into me. I was arranging movie hangouts over Discord and noticed that when I'm not driving it no one really speaks up and tries to organize it on their own, which made me feel somewhat annoyed; I get sick of being default "MC". But motivation these days is low and depression is high.

So don't be too hard on yourself.

[Auspice]

Tooth pain.

I just want to sleep forever.

[Tinuviel]

@Auspice Historically speaking, that is the eventual outcome of tooth pain.

[Aria]

So far, I have turned in six weeks' worth of assignments in my current course.

So far, I have had to contest four weeks' worth of grades.

And I don't mean in the whiny undergraduate way of "I don't like my grade! Give me an A!", but instances where the TA has released the answer sheet and their calculations has been objectively, mathematically wrong. Or where I've received short written essays back with comments that I had ten percentage points docked for not even mentioning something..... I addressed at two different points, including the causal analysis of how one came to be.

This TA probably hates me, but that's okay. I hate them, too.

[Auspice]

@aria Ugh, I'm sorry.

It sucks when you have to do that sort of shit.
I had to run a grade up through the department heads once. Because it was something we had to host on an external website. That website was down the day the instructor went to grade my work (aka something completely outside of my control), so she gave me a 0. She refused to yield, so it ended up having to go to mediation.

Sometimes people are stubborn in really shitty ways.

[Ganymede]

@auspice said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

She refused to yield, so it ended up having to go to mediation.

So, I'm going to be a professor in a few weeks, and y'all have me spooked.

[Aria]

@auspice Yeeeeeeah, I might feel like more of a jerk doing this except, well....

This time my team got a fucking D -- a 68%! -- on an assignment where I ended up requesting a regrade with page numbers and direct quotations from our paper where were addressed items their comments claim we didn't so much as identify.

Sometimes even for assignments that I don't resubmit, I'll see my grade go up later without reply, announcement, or explanation. I'm guessing there's a very large proportion of assignments being submitted for review and after enough complaints, they just go in and adjust them for everyone.

If that's happening week after week after week, it seems like the problem is obvious. And it's probably not the students.

I think I've had one other professor/TA that pissed me off this much and that guy was just a legit fucking racist/misogynist jackass that I ended up having to report to the dean in a conversation that pretty much boiled down to "Y'all realize that sooner or later you're gonna end up dealing with a lawsuit because of this prick, right?"

[Auspice]

@ganymede said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

@auspice said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

She refused to yield, so it ended up having to go to mediation.

So, I'm going to be a professor in a few weeks, and y'all have me spooked.

I had like, 3 bad instructors out of the grand total. And in each case it boiled down to pure ego.

One who did the whole 'I don't give As to show that you have room to improve' (and so he BEGAN his grading at 90 and sharply went down from there). The lady who refused to acknowledge outside issues. And then the guy who would outright yell at us. He one time goaded a girl into speaking her mind and then yelled at her to shut up as soon as she started to do so.

I am PRETTY SURE you will be none of these things.

My best instructors were the ones who gave me honest, thorough feedback. Who were willing to take the time to talk to me when I had questions. Who provided a cut-and-dry syllabus (really, there is no need for cutesy shit with a syllabus: there's a reason there's a formula. it works and people understand it).

[Quinn]

@ganymede Students will always complain about grades where they don't get A's. @Aria definitely has a reason to complain, but as someone that has been teaching for over a decade now (god I am fucking old) so long as you are clear in your responses as to why points are lost there's usually not room for argument.

I mean they still will argue. Last round of papers I got a four page email from someone about how they should have the two points I docked back (they didn't get them back). It's a fine line to walk with "I understand things are rough for everyone right now so here is some empathy and wiggle room" when there are students who will send you sob story after sob story and you will move deadlines and they still will not meet them and then not understand why they failed why are you so mean, but there's only so much you can do.

In a year or two you will get an email from someone saying you were the reason they became a better writer or better at what they do or are why they graduated or decided to go back to get a degree. And you'll feel like it's all worth it.

Until evaluations roll in. Because 9 out of 10 will be glowing but you will remember that 1 that rates you as the worst and blasts you.

It's still worth it. Probably.

[Ganymede]

@auspice said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

My best instructors were the ones who gave me honest, thorough feedback. Who were willing to take the time to talk to me when I had questions. Who provided a cut-and-dry syllabus (really, there is no need for cutesy shit with a syllabus: there's a reason there's a formula. it works and people understand it).

Well, I can give honest feedback because there are two kinds of students:

1. Students who think I am their friend, and are sorely disappointed; and
2. Students who think I am not their friend, and are never disappointed.

My syllabus will be tough to get done, I'll admit, but I'm probably going to tell them: "Look, I know you have 12 weekly assignments for 12 weeks, but get them done and in on time and you'll get the full 5% per, up to a max of 50%, then we grade your final assignment for the remaining 50% because whether I give you an A or a D won't matter if you can't pass that bar exam."

I may ride their asses like Zorro, but those students are going to have a nice portfolio of work, some worthwhile feedback, and know how to litigate a whole slew of real estate lawsuits.

[Aria]

@auspice said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

Who provided a cut-and-dry syllabus (really, there is no need for cutesy shit with a syllabus: there's a reason there's a formula. it works and people understand it).

@Ganymede

That's pretty much exactly what's going wrong in my class - not so much the syllabus specifically, as ours are standardized for each course in my program, so much as just setting clear guidelines.

Based on the commentary we receive back on our work, it's abundantly clear that our TA has very set expectations for how they want us to address items in various assignments. The thing is, he doesn't communicate that to us.

This is especially problematic for qualitative topics where the instructions are essentially, "Here is a case study. Read the case study, consider the problem they're having, and draw a conclusion. Support your conclusion with evidence from the case." That seems like an entirely reasonable assignment, save that what he really means is "Consider the problem they're having with X but which is not at all the highlight of the case study and which you've not been provided the data for. Analyze it using this methodology. Draw this very specific conclusion I have outlined in my rubric provided to my fellow assistants but not to you, then use assumptions that you have nothing to back up to prove this specific conclusion is correct."

The majority of the questions posted in our course forums are requests for clarifications on how we're supposed to even approach the assignment, because the class has figured out that if we don't harangue him for more specifics, answering the question as asked will invariably be marked as wrong.

If you ask open-ended questions, then you need to expect variability in the answers and grade based on whether they've presented logical, well-supported arguments. If you want your students to approach a problem using a specific lens, then just tell them that.

[Ganymede]

@aria said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

If you ask open-ended questions, then you need to expect variability in the answers and grade based on whether they've presented logical, well-supported arguments. If you want your students to approach a problem using a specific lens, then just tell them that.

I think the difference is that I'm teaching law students, who will be going into their 3L year and should have been indoctrinated by now into approaching problems with a specific lens.

Thankfully, I'll have 3 hours with them each week.

[Jeshin]

@ganymede

I'd like to know more about this Zorro reference. Why Zorro specifically?

[Derp]

@ganymede said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

@auspice said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

My best instructors were the ones who gave me honest, thorough feedback. Who were willing to take the time to talk to me when I had questions. Who provided a cut-and-dry syllabus (really, there is no need for cutesy shit with a syllabus: there's a reason there's a formula. it works and people understand it).

Well, I can give honest feedback because there are two kinds of students:

1. Students who think I am their friend, and are sorely disappointed; and
2. Students who think I am not their friend, and are never disappointed.

My syllabus will be tough to get done, I'll admit, but I'm probably going to tell them: "Look, I know you have 12 weekly assignments for 12 weeks, but get them done and in on time and you'll get the full 5% per, up to a max of 50%, then we grade your final assignment for the remaining 50% because whether I give you an A or a D won't matter if you can't pass that bar exam."

I may ride their asses like Zorro, but those students are going to have a nice portfolio of work, some worthwhile feedback, and know how to litigate a whole slew of real estate lawsuits.

I strongly desire professors like this. Can I sign up for your class? (j/k, that would be weird or whatever.)

[Ganymede]

@jeshin said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

I'd like to know more about this Zorro reference. Why Zorro specifically?

It's a bit from the 90s.

---

@derp said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

I strongly desire professors like this. Can I sign up for your class? (j/k, that would be weird or whatever.)

Sorry, this is for 3Ls only. But if I can teach openly at the college level, sure.

[Auspice]

@ganymede

By having a cut-and-dry syllabus, I don't even mean in difficulty.

I mean by being cut and dry. Make it clear what you expect. Make it clear what's going on and when. Make it clear what deadlines are.

I had one professor decide to get all cutesy and instead of 'Week 1, Week 2, Week 3-' etc, it was 'Prism 1, Prism 2, Prism 3' and the references would be stuff like 'While working on Prism 3 refer to the droplets you submitted in Prism 1 and....' ('droplet' being a specific part of an assignment in Prism 1 that was never used as a reference point any other time)

NO ONE knew wtf he meant. And he'd go out of contact for days on end and often just be like 'This is only my second class with this syllabus! I'm still working out the kinks!' ....while still not giving an answer. 9 times out of 10 in that class, I just guessed what I was supposed to be doing and crossed my fingers. Me and a few other classmates ended up collaborating on our work so much because we just felt helpless.

[Aria]

@auspice

[Tributary]

@aria When I was teaching, I had some students approach me during office hours for help with a lab assignment from one of my colleagues. And I said, "Sure, I'll sit and talk to you about it, so long as you let me eat lunch in the process." (Because it was really lunch hour and just adjacent to office hours, but whatever.) And we sat together and I made them work it out, and they were giddy when they left. And then I stalked down the hall to talk to my colleague. He admitted he'd told them to "Go bother someone else," and they did. Hrmph.

But my syllabi always included a calendar:
Week 1: Monday -- Chapter 1.1-1.3; Wednesday -- Chapter 1.4-1.5; Homework: <list of questions>
Week 2: Monday -- Chapter 2.1-2.2; Wednesday -- Chapter 2.3-2.4; Homework: <list>
Week 3: Monday -- Chapter 2.5; Wednesday -- Review Chapter 1 & 2; Homework: <list>
Week 4: Monday -- Exam 1; Wednesday -- Chapter 3.1-3.3; Homework: <list>
...and so on. With dates. So that they could tell that they'd be tested on September 3rd, for example, so write it in your calendars now.

This turned hilarious one semester when the Organic Chemistry professor and I (teaching Introductory Physics) happened to pick more or less the exact same dates for exams. Because of the way the calendar fell and holidays and such, they made the most sense for pacing. But the students, at least half of which were enrolled in both classes, cried that we'd conspired against them. I admit that we had a good laugh together in the faculty lounge one afternoon a couple of weeks into the semester, which was the first time we'd discussed it, because the students were campaigning to both of us to move the exams, and both of us were like, "Look, you know you have both exams on the 3rd. You knew that from Day One. Just take that into account as you prepare!"

Since I was required to take attendance by the university, attendance and participation counted for 5% of final grades. I excused absences for practically anything asked (asking was key), and as I pointed out to them, with something like 30 class days to count, each class missed reduced their final average by less than 0.2%. But I did my best to treat them like adults when it came to them being sick and other such things. Class lecture notes were always posted on the class website, too.

I gave exams on Mondays, and anyone taking it in the accommodation center had until Tuesday at close-of-business to take it. They had until Thursday to make up the exam, if they missed it, unless they were in the hospital or had a flu diagnosis, and then I was more flexible. But I tried never to move deadlines, because that was always a nightmare. And I very rarely gave back points on an exam, because I expressed at the beginning that it was their responsibility to communicate to me on the exam what they meant.

I'm glad I'm not teaching this year, though. What a wreck.

[Aria]

@tributary See, all of that sounds entirely reasonable to me. I don't mind if a class is hard work. I don't mind if a professor is a harsh grader. I don't even mind all that much if a professor is almost entirely inflexible.

I do mind when professors don't communicate their expectations, put it on students to guess what it is they want, and then punish their students for guessing incorrectly.

FOR FUCK'S SAKE, JUST TELL US WHAT YOU WANT.