Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.

[Auspice]

gdi asshole cat figured out how to open the cabinets at the new place.

[Ganymede]

@Auspice said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

Like wtf is it with grown ass adults wanting their parents to save their ass from their own shit.

Wtf is it with adults wanting anyone to save their ass from their own shit?

My current peeve: middle class wypipo.

Specifically, there’s this MCW mentality apparently that parents should go with their kids to see things that have zero interest to adults.

Such bullshit.

Your kids learn from you. If you coddle and cater to them, they will never grow up. I would rather take my kids to a Motley Crue concert than a fucking Paw Patrol show, for fuck’s sake, because: (1) fuck Paw Patrol; (2) they are already familiar with the music; and (3) they would be the coolest kids in a school.

Conformity leads to dull thinkers.

[Tinuviel]

@Ganymede It's posts like these that really explain a bunch about how you got to be the way you are.

[silverfox]

. . .

So... parents shouldn't show an interest in what their kids are interested in or support them if they, the parent, aren't having fun?

I'm honestly asking if that is what you mean, because that is what it read like, and if it isn't, then you should probably edit.

If you point is 'screw this one child thing' that is legit, not all child things are good, but, uh, that is not what you said.

(Cuz I gotta say, I appreciate the fuck out of how my parents went to all my T-ball games despite the fact they both worked full time an hour+ away from where we lived and hhaatteeedd baseball. It taught me I could fail completely and that they loved me regardless. It also taught me that it was occasionally okay to say, "this isn't for me," and be done with something.)

[Ganymede]

@Tinuviel said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

It's posts like these that really explain a bunch about how you got to be the way you are.

---

@silverfox said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

So... parents shouldn't show an interest in what their kids are interested in or support them if they, the parent, aren't having fun?

I will clarify my peeve because I am miscommunicating. And I will do so in typical fashion.

Act III, Scene I

<< Ganymede and partner are sitting in bed on their laptops. >>

Her: Do you know what my sister is taking her kids to?
Me: << impersonating Jack Nicholson >> I'm an educated man, but I'm afraid I can't speak intelligently about --
Her: -- she's taking them to see Don't Let The Pigeon Drive the Bus.
Me: They made a movie about it?
Her: No, it's a live musical.
Me: Aw, fuck no.
Her: They love that book.
Me: They love KISS, but we aren't taking them to the concert.
Her: That's different.
Me: Of course it is. That's at least mildly entertaining.
Her: But my sister is taking her kids.
Me: Do we have to do everything that she's doing for some reason? If she were pushing her kids off a building --
Her: So, you don't want to go.
Me: No, I don't fucking want to go.

<< Pause >>

Her: They'd love it.
Me: They don't even know about it! How do you know? Frankly, they will go to anything you are dragging them to because you are dragging them there. That's not the same.
Her: They'd love it.
Me: You don't know that right now. You can't know that. They can't sit through a movie for longer than an hour.
Her: They'd love it.
Me: They love ripping farts! They are six and don't know shit about shit.
Her: They'd love it.

<< Pause >>

Her: All right, you don't have to go.

<< Pause >>

Me: Just get me a fucking ticket.
Her: You're a good parent.
Me: I'm a good spouse. I'm a shitty parent. But I never pretended to be a good parent.
Her: So you're pretending to be a good spouse?
Me: Pretty much.

I am more than happy to go to t-ball tournaments. I help out with my boy's basketball team. I go to PT conferences. But we're talking about a fucking musical show which I know my kids never, ever, talk about after the fact. This happened when my wife dragged us to the Paw Patrol show and the Monster Jam rally. My kids are into Disney dolls and Transformers, and any pretense to the contrary is just utter bullshit.

Don't get me started on the Cub Scouts, something which the boy didn't even want to do in the first place.

Also, evidence that I'm a good spouse: she's seen The Rise of Skywalker, but I have not. Then again, from what I've heard --

[Ghost]

@Ganymede said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

I would rather take my kids to a Motley Crue concert than a fucking Paw Patrol show

This is good parenting.

Because Motley Crüe is fucking awesome.

[Auspice]

@Ganymede said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

@Auspice said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

Like wtf is it with grown ass adults wanting their parents to save their ass from their own shit.

Wtf is it with adults wanting anyone to save their ass from their own shit?

I feel like that goes both ways.

My parents never did anything with me as a kid that wasn't part of their interests. No involvement in any activities. 'Kid shit sucks so I'm gonna avoid it'
= My parents made it pretty obvious they did not support me one bit.

[Auspice]

So I'm gonna vent for a minute.

The amount of complaining I have seen in the past year towards Faraday is some bullshit. Some sexist bullshit, in fact.

I have heard so many layers of people demanding she develop certain things for Ares in some goddamn entitled ways.

Guess what: you aren't paying her.
She develops Ares on her own time, at her own pace, for free.
She releases it for free.

She doesn't have to include anything she doesn't want to. She doesn't have to justify herself. And yeah, she is blunt and brusque sometimes, but also: she doesn't have to fucking say anything other than 'I don't want to' when telling you why.

Jesus Christ I have had multiple people privately PM me to whine that they were told 'I don't want to' by Faraday as a reason to not add something and they didn't like it.

So?

Should she write up an emotional, empathetic, multi-paragraph reasoning? If it was Tehom or Ashen telling you 'Nah, I don't want to add that' would you feel the same? Or would go go 'cool, brah, thanks for listening.'

I promise you, Fara and I have butted heads more than a few times (we fought, big time, over the addition of page reporting back when BSU was open and Ares was still a baby... and people have probably seen a couple of our arguments in the Ares Discord), but I have never sat there thinking 'How dare she say it THAT way.

She's never been insulting. She's never been rude. She's just been blunt.

She doesn't owe anyone an explanation for why she's doing things, goddamnit. Until you are paying her for her work, she can design and release Ares however she damn well pleases.

[Derp]

@Ganymede said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

I would rather take my kids to a Motley Crue concert than a fucking Paw Patrol show

[ZekeTheG33k]

@Auspice Oh no.. I bitch as Ashen-Shugar too... I don't do anything with Evennia directly, I have someone on my dev team that is a wiz with Python and such, so we can make what we want happen.

[Auspice]

@Seamus said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

@Auspice Oh no.. I bitch as Ashen-Shugar too... I don't do anything with Evennia directly, I have someone on my dev team that is a wiz with Python and such, so we can make what we want happen.

It was a general 'you' anyway.

Like I said in the post, multiple people have spoken of Faraday in this way which is why it has grated on me so bad. It's just the fact that someone is actively using an email campaign to harass her that is really pissing me off at this point.

[Groth]

@Seamus said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

@Auspice Oh no.. I bitch as Ashen-Shugar too... I don't do anything with Evennia directly, I have someone on my dev team that is a wiz with Python and such, so we can make what we want happen.

I am at this point rather surprised anyone wants to work with you.

[ZekeTheG33k]

@Groth said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

@Seamus said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

@Auspice Oh no.. I bitch as Ashen-Shugar too... I don't do anything with Evennia directly, I have someone on my dev team that is a wiz with Python and such, so we can make what we want happen.

I am at this point rather surprised anyone wants to work with you.

That's because you don't actually know me. You know "of me". There is a distinct difference.

[Darren]

@Auspice When I first started tinkering with Ares, some of my friends warned me that Faraday was not at all receptive to people modifying the server in ways she did not personally approve of and that she and I would most likely end up butting heads. I took that warning to heart and have avoided asking her any questions, participating in the AresMUSH forum, or discussing my projects on sites like this (ok so I have not been so good about the last one). That heads-up no doubt saved me (and Faraday) some unnecessary drama, so I am extremely grateful for it.

Not really being critical here since it is her project, time, etc etc, just relaying my personal experience.

[Auspice]

@Darren said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

@Auspice When I first started tinkering with Ares, some of my friends warned me that Faraday was not at all receptive to people modifying the server in ways she did not personally approve of and that she and I would most likely end up butting heads. I took that warning to heart and have avoided asking her any questions, participating in the AresMUSH forum, or discussing my projects on sites like this (ok so I have not been so good about the last one). That heads-up no doubt saved me (and Faraday) some unnecessary drama, so I am extremely grateful for it.

Not really being critical here since it is her project, time, etc etc, just relaying my personal experience.

They told you wrong.

Ares is built for custom code. She even welcomes people to submit 'extras' for it. @Tat has provided a few. The Open Weather extra that someone made is amazing and just something Faraday didn't have the time/headspace for.

The issue that a lot of people run into is they demand X feature and Faraday says no and if you want it, make it yourself.

Which she has every right to because it's her code and her time. She has no obligation to make things for other people.

[ZekeTheG33k]

@Auspice said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

@Darren said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

@Auspice When I first started tinkering with Ares, some of my friends warned me that Faraday was not at all receptive to people modifying the server in ways she did not personally approve of and that she and I would most likely end up butting heads. I took that warning to heart and have avoided asking her any questions, participating in the AresMUSH forum, or discussing my projects on sites like this (ok so I have not been so good about the last one). That heads-up no doubt saved me (and Faraday) some unnecessary drama, so I am extremely grateful for it.

Not really being critical here since it is her project, time, etc etc, just relaying my personal experience.

They told you wrong.

Ares is built for custom code. She even welcomes people to submit 'extras' for it. @Tat has provided a few. The Open Weather extra that someone made is amazing and just something Faraday didn't have the time/headspace for.

The issue that a lot of people run into is they demand X feature and Faraday says no and if you want it, make it yourself.

Which she has every right to because it's her code and her time. She has no obligation to make things for other people.

I'm sorry @Auspice but I really don't think they told them wrong. Faraday is real quick to say "no" to anything she doesn't agree with. And as you said, it's her right. But warning someone... That's a good thing too. I've contributed a "Dark Skin" for Ares.

[Derp]

I've personally found that @Faraday is extremely patient and respectful when approached respectfully. She's been pretty great. She does have some vision things that she wants out of it, and so I've asked for things and been told 'no' before, but it was pretty chill, all in all. She even engaged in some discussion about it when I asked (politely, mind you) why she chose to do things a certain way.

If approached like a reasonable human being, I've seen her treat people like reasonable human beings, so I'm not sure that a warning is entirely justified.

[Roz]

There is a difference between saying no to requests that would require Faraday's coding time and expertise and being disapproving of people customizing their own code. The latter sounds more like the "warning" as described.

Also I have now seen some examples of you fighting with Faraday on the Ares Discord server and she is sure not the one who comes off poorly in those logs.

[Auspice]

@Seamus said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

@Auspice said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

@Darren said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

@Auspice When I first started tinkering with Ares, some of my friends warned me that Faraday was not at all receptive to people modifying the server in ways she did not personally approve of and that she and I would most likely end up butting heads. I took that warning to heart and have avoided asking her any questions, participating in the AresMUSH forum, or discussing my projects on sites like this (ok so I have not been so good about the last one). That heads-up no doubt saved me (and Faraday) some unnecessary drama, so I am extremely grateful for it.

Not really being critical here since it is her project, time, etc etc, just relaying my personal experience.

They told you wrong.

Ares is built for custom code. She even welcomes people to submit 'extras' for it. @Tat has provided a few. The Open Weather extra that someone made is amazing and just something Faraday didn't have the time/headspace for.

The issue that a lot of people run into is they demand X feature and Faraday says no and if you want it, make it yourself.

Which she has every right to because it's her code and her time. She has no obligation to make things for other people.

I'm sorry @Auspice but I really don't think they told them wrong. Faraday is real quick to say "no" to anything she doesn't agree with. And as you said, it's her right. But warning someone... That's a good thing too. I've contributed a "Dark Skin" for Ares.

This bit: 'some of my friends warned me that Faraday was not at all receptive to people modifying the server in ways she did not personally approve of'

That part is entirely false. Ares is meant to be modified. You're even saying you contributed something.

This is ridiculous.

[faraday]

@Darren said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

When I first started tinkering with Ares, some of my friends warned me that Faraday was not at all receptive to people modifying the server in ways she did not personally approve of and that she and I would most likely end up butting heads.

Yeah, y'know, given that I've spent an astonishing amount of time writing pages and pages of tutorials explaining how to write custom code and how the underlying engine works, that's not only patently untrue but kind of insulting.

There is an immeasurable difference between saying "no" to implementing something in my own spare time and objecting to someone else spending their time implementing the thing.

Ares is open source. Do whatever you want with it.

But there is a limit to how much of my free time I'm willing to expend hand-holding someone through hammering down the walls of the thing I've built to build something I don't approve of. I won't apologize for that, nor should I have to.