Dead Celebrity Thread

[Ganymede]

@Coin said in Dead Celebrity Thread:

It looks to me like Nunes just capitalized on the flaw everyone was privy to since the fight with Holm: Roussey is just no good against boxers, she has no defense against them and has always relied on grapples and her superior Judo skills.

You serious? I vehemently disagree.

In her prime, Ronda didn't need a defense. She rushed, got a hold, and boom you're done. More than that, she had a fucking cast-iron jaw. You don't need a defense when you simply were not going to get knocked out.

And then Holly Holm got a punch in. And a kick in the face. And that was it.

When Ronda came back, she was hesitant and tentative. She never rushed. She was afraid. And that sealed the deal.

Holly Holm was lucky to survive. She lost her next match to MIesha Tate, who had previously lost twice to Rousey and is a grappler. Then, Tate lost to Nunes, who was simply younger and hungrier (and similarly trained).

Rousey was consistently great against all styles until Holm got a lucky shot in. You might as well say that Fabricio Werdum was never any good at boxers, and you'd be dead fucking wrong as well.

[Coin]

@Ganymede

You can disagree all you want, but I don't think Holm got lucky at all. I think she studied her opponent and knew exactly what to do. She dominated that entire fight. "Getting lucky" is when you swing your fist and hit the other person by chance and it happens to stun them. Holm systematically brought Rousey down to the point where Rhonda was wild and lost all control, and then she kicked her teeth in.

I have no doubt that her defeat at Holm's hands (and feet) brought Rousey down a few pegs, enough that she didn't have the same fire, which undoubtedly helped Nunes destroy her the way she did. But she kept trying to grab Nunes those entire 48 seconds and Nunes just kept punching her in the face.

If you have to say "she didn't need defense" proved to be absolutely incorrect when she got knocked the fuck out. I mean, that's just true.

"I don't need defense because I am not going to get knocked out" + "I got knocked out" = "I needed defense".

[Ganymede]

@Coin said in Dead Celebrity Thread:

If you have to say "she didn't need defense" proved to be absolutely incorrect when she got knocked the fuck out. I mean, that's just true.

No, I said "she didn't need a defense before because she had a cast-iron jaw." Said another way, her defense was her apparent inability to get knocked the fuck out by punches. Your statement of "she never had a defense" is only true if you ignore every single other combatant she faced prior to Holm.

So, I'm objecting to your assertion that "she never had a defense." That obviously all changed when that defense failed her. I'll amend to agree that she probably should have developed a better defense than ERMAHGERD I'm the fucking Wolverine.

Prior to Holm, Rousey was perfectly capable of going beyond the first round, and did so (once). Most of the time, people tried to punch their way out of getting mauled by a bear. The difference with Holm is that the bear got older.

As with Verdum: "I haven't gotten knocked the fuck out." + "I got knocked out." =/= "I never had a defense."

[Coin]

I guess the difference is that I don't consider having an iron jaw as having defense. Being able to take a punch (or ten) is not the same as being able to defend from those punches. Holmn was just more experienced in an area Rousey was not expecting to face a challenge in. Considering that months prior, Rousey downed someone else in like half a minute, I don't think she got 'got old' in a few months.

I mean, Rousey is 29 and Holm is 35... if anything, Holm was the bear and Rhonda poked it too hard...

[Ganymede]

@Coin said in Dead Celebrity Thread:

I mean, Rousey is 29 and Holm is 35... if anything, Holm was the bear and Rhonda poked it too hard...

I meant that Rousey got older, and lost her inability to get knocked the fuck out.

And then, with Nunes, Rousey had to re-invent herself. She probably tried to adopt a striking defense, which is why she didn't bull's-rush her way to victory. And lost handily as a result.

Remember when Anderson Silva lost to Chael Sonnen? He wasn't the same since, even though he retained the belt. That's what this reminds me of.

[Coin]

I'm just not someone who thinks an athlete can be the best, especially in a competitive sport where you have to interact. Usain Bolt may be the fastest sprinter in the world (maybe) but that's a quantifiable thing that has little to no interaction with his opponents.

In combat... it's a whole different world. I think Holm was just better than Rousey in that match up. I think she probably would have been better a little before, definitely a little after. Rousey had a streak of opponents she could handle and destroy, and then something different got in her way.

It's a little like Rock-Paper-Scissors, that way.

[ThatGuyThere]

@Ganymede said in Dead Celebrity Thread:

I meant that Rousey got older, and lost her inability to get knocked the fuck out.

Not an MMA fan but as a boxing fan, one of the truisms in that related sport is that the first thing to go is the ability to absorb punishment.
I did not watch Rousey's latest fight but I did watch the Holm fight and I will say Holm did not get lucky she controlled the fight. It is the old adage "Styles make fights." Holm's style was not something that Rousey could deal with. True, Rousey had dealt with other strikers but not all strikers are the same style, just as not all grapplers are the same style.
Another facet of the Hols loss was the loss of mystique, before the loss she was the face of Women's MMA and through her string of quick wins had an intimidation factor, the loss made her human and beatable. Look at Tyson he was never the same fighter after Buster Douglas beat him. He still won matches and titles but he was no longer feared in the same way.
I do think Rousey made a mistake in taking this fight as the first match back purely from a financial perspective she should have gone the Tyson route and fought a couple of tomato cans to get a roll going, though I don't follow the sport nearly enough to know who the female MMA equivalent to Peter McNeely would be.

[Miss Demeanor]

Hey guys? Maybe move the discussion to a thread not about dead celebrities, please?