Good or New Movies Review

Arkandel

@ganymede That's high praise!

What makes it special?

Ominous

@arkandel said in Good or New Movies Review:

What makes it special?

I also would like to know the answer to this question. Realize that I dislike 95% of all movies made in the past 20 years and have particular disdain for the MCU.

Ganymede

@arkandel

The story follows wuxia storytelling. It is a very East Asian way of putting a story together. Lots of awesome chop-socks action. A lot of laughter interspersed, thanks to the comic chemistry of Awkwafina and Simu Liu, who is no stranger to sitcoms.

But it is Tony Leung who eats up every scene. Both a gifted martial artist and romantic lead, he brings the same sort of gravitas to the main villain, Wenwu, as Michael Jordan did to Killmonger. That said, while Killmonger was motivated by rage and injustice, Wenwu is motivated by love and family.

To say that it probably resonates with Chinese more than non-Chinese goes without saying. But that the MCU did such a good homage to this style of movie is special. The special effects are amazing, of course, and if you don’t shed some tears, you probably have no soul. I took my eight year olds to see it, and they enjoyed it a lot.

Also, it runs 2 hours and 13 minutes, so it isn’t a slog.

Wretched

@ganymede well now i really wanna go see it.

Arkandel

I watched Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings today. It was really good! I wouldn't say the best MCU movie (Civil War and The Winter Soldier are too high up for me) but it's certainly very near the top.

It went from strength to strength. Unlike most MCU intro movies there was no boring origin part, no dead time... everything was either setting up the story, offering background or an action scene.
The fight scenes were top notch.
Really good chemistry between the leads.
The benchmark of a good MCU movie: A relatable villain whose motive isn't simply being evil.

Some spoilery thing things:

***=NSFW content***

click to show

Actually I did have a question from anyone versed in Asian communities. I read a post on Reddit that claimed Shang-Chi wasn't expected to do very well in actually Asian countries because Simu Liu is too muscular/big, and that doesn't conform to the cultural ideal of lean action heroes.

Is there any truth to it?

Ganymede

@arkandel

I think that is a load of shit. If they were okay with Matt Damon in Great Wall, I’m not sure what the problem is.

I should also note that I am heavily-biased here, I suppose. First, Simu Liu is a hometown hero. Second, he is an alumnus of my high school, and one of my friends was teaching there when he attended. Finally, I am just happy that someone who looks like my kids made it this far, and I just want them to look up and aspire to be like him, just a little.

No kidding, I was open-faced weeping when I saw him because I know what it is like to be turned down for a role on stage because of my race. I also wonder if, knowing that he made it, some of my cousins who killed themselves for not reaching the "stereotypical" heights of Chinese-dom may have been spared.

Still, he's only 6'0". And you should be watching for Tony Leung, who is 5'7". Because this is Tony's movie (Warning: Spoilers in the link), really, and he deserves it.

GreenFlashlight

@ganymede Are you familiar with Tony Leung's work?

Ganymede

@greenflashlight said in Good or New Movies Review:

Are you familiar with Tony Leung's work?

Some. More vividly, I recall seeing Lust/Caution and Infernal Affairs. When I was younger, I recall seeing him in Happy Together and Heaven Can't Wait, but that was a long time ago for me.

TNP

@ganymede Just as an FYI, you should check out Telly Leung who's an actor and singer on TV and Broadway. He's quite good.

Ganymede

@tnp said in Good or New Movies Review:

Just as an FYI, you should check out Telly Leung who's an actor and singer on TV and Broadway. He's quite good.

I saw him on Broadway in the titular role in Aladdin.

GreenFlashlight

@ganymede said in Good or New Movies Review:

@greenflashlight said in Good or New Movies Review:

Are you familiar with Tony Leung's work?

Some. More vividly, I recall seeing Lust/Caution and Infernal Affairs. When I was younger, I recall seeing him in Happy Together and Heaven Can't Wait, but that was a long time ago for me.

Do you know if he's especially fluent in English? I couldn't help noticing that for any scene in Shang-Chi that called for him to really emote, he switched back to (Cantonese, right?), which made me wonder if it was a stylistic choice the writers made, or if the director has helping him play to his strengths as an actor.

Jennkryst

Shang-Chi good, and because I am a basic bitch, I am once again thrust into L5R mode, let's gooooooooo

Ganymede

@greenflashlight said in Good or New Movies Review:

Do you know if he's especially fluent in English? I couldn't help noticing that for any scene in Shang-Chi that called for him to really emote, he switched back to (Cantonese, right?), which made me wonder if it was a stylistic choice the writers made, or if the director has helping him play to his strengths as an actor.

Tony Leung is fairly fluent in English, but -- and I am not accusing you or anyone here of anything -- that question is considered racist in Asian-American circles.

I think it's important to point out that, no matter the actor's fluency, Wenwu is definitely Chinese. In the movie, his dialogue is Mandarin, not Cantonese. This is because Cantonese is actually a rare dialect in China, even though it is fairly common in North America. This is because the affluent wave of Chinese immigrants who fled China during the Cultural Revolution were predominantly from southern China, where Cantonese is spoken.

So, why is the question racist?

Because it's not about the actor. Ronny Chieng, for instance, is fluent in English and Chinese, but his character talks to Shang-Chi and Katy in English. Why? Because what he is saying is not important. Contrast this with Leung, who speaks to his family and on important matters in Chinese. Why? Because when you are among family or talking about important things which might lose nuance, you speak in Chinese, even if you are fluent in English. This is a cultural thing.

So, it's about the moment.

Many people presume that a Chinese person speaks in Chinese because they are not fluent in English. This is not always the case. In business, the Chinese teach themselves English and are far more fluent than people expect; however, they may use an interpreter because they want to make sure the nuance of Chinese is translated properly into English. Part of this is not wanting to look silly; the other part is to not disrespect the listener by saying something accidentally offensive.

So, to me, this was a directorial choice, and a very good one.

I'm not fluent in Mandarin, but I've been told that the subtitles do not do the nuances of the language justice. Here's an article about that.

GreenFlashlight

@ganymede said in Good or New Movies Review:

Tony Leung is fairly fluent in English, but -- and I am not accusing you or anyone here of anything -- that question is considered racist in Asian-American circles.

Sorry about that. Won't happen again.

BetterNow

@greenflashlight said in Good or New Movies Review:

@ganymede Are you familiar with Tony Leung's work?

Particularly loved him as Broken Sword in Jet Li's "Hero".

Ganymede

@greenflashlight

No problem at all.

silverfox

@ganymede

This was really cool to read. I'd wondered why some was in English and some was in Chinese.

ALSO QUESTION: I know that there are many different dialects of Chinese - is it appropriate when you don't know what the exact dialect is to call it 'Chinese'? Even if you do know (for example, this post since you explicitly told us it is Mandarin) is it still appropriate to use the more generalized term?

Derp

@silverfox said in Good or New Movies Review:

I know that there are many different dialects of Chinese - is it appropriate when you don't know what the exact dialect is to call it 'Chinese'?

I mean, linguistically it would be correct. I don't know how the cultures feel about it.

The different 'dialects' are usually really different languages altogether, but they share similar grammatical structures and a (generally) shared writing system with minor quirks in order and some forms. You might not be able to understand each other's spoken language, but if you write it down, pretty much every Chinese language will be able to get the gist of it.

So calling them dialects is kind of a misnomer, but they share enough structure that communication is possible, even if only in writing and probably not with complete accuracy.

Ganymede

@silverfox said in Good or New Movies Review:

I know that there are many different dialects of Chinese - is it appropriate when you don't know what the exact dialect is to call it 'Chinese'? Even if you do know (for example, this post since you explicitly told us it is Mandarin) is it still appropriate to use the more generalized term?

It's okay to use the more generalized term, I think. The Chinese language is more different than Japanese or Korean than Mandarin is from Cantonese. Plus, I don't expect the unknowing to be able to tell the difference between the dialects. Wikipedia has a good breakdown here.

GreenFlashlight

@ganymede You're doing a lot of free labor educating us. I just wanted to let you know I see it and appreciate it.