Good or New Movies Review

[Coin]

@Ganymede said in Good or New Movies Review:

@Coin

At some point, a lessor just eyes the lessee and wonders if they just want to buy the property. You can exact a better price that way, since the lessee is entrenched and subject to economic inertia.

Come on, people, Asian people are wise; that's why they let Disney essentially borrow their IP for a bit. Meanwhile, white people are dumb; that's why Fox gave up their IP without letting Disney attach their cash-cow to it first.

Absolutely. I would never assume that Disney buying anything would be cheap, or even not in Sony's favor in the end; just that eventually, Spider-Man will swing back home to Marvel Studios. Disney has put too much effort, time, and money for them not to secure such a major part of what has become the largest film franchise in history. In ten years it surpassed thirty years worth of Star Wars. which they also own.

Or maybe I'm wrong and they'll chuck it like they did Hulk, striking a nominal deal to have Spidey in a few future MCU films that aren't solo endeavors. I don't know.

[Coin]

@Arkandel said in Good or New Movies Review:

All of this isn't bluffing or base stupidity - it's just negotiating. Disney is using public opinion as leverage, making fans' outrage a factor in Sony's decision making.

If Sony believes enough people will be angry enough to not watch Spider-man if the character is detached from Marvel and they expect the diminished sales to be more than the percentage of shared revenue Disney is asking for, then they'll cut a deal. Else they won't.

IIRC, Disney was also offering to front half the cost of the movies in return for half the revenue, which they weren't doing before, so it's not like Sony would be spending the same money and losing 45% more of the revenue than before; the costs would be ameliorated pretty heavily.

[Ganymede]

@Arkandel said in Good or New Movies Review:

All of this isn't bluffing or base stupidity - it's just negotiating. Disney is using public opinion as leverage, making fans' outrage a factor in Sony's decision making.

That's all fine and dandy until public opinion realizes that Disney is the company that's actually playing hardball here.

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@Coin said in Good or New Movies Review:

Disney has put too much effort, time, and money for them not to secure such a major part of what has become the largest film franchise in history. In ten years it surpassed thirty years worth of Star Wars. which they also own.

[TheOnceler]

Saying this as a huge Disney fanboy and not-insignificant shareholder, Disney's being dickish here. They only got 5%, but they get 100% on every other front. There's no Spider-Man action figure from which Sony gets a dime. That official Miles Morales body pillow Jaded bought at Bronycon? Sony doesn't see a bit. And that merchandising money is tremendous compared to what they get from the movie.

Sony was being bullheaded in refusing to give, though I think that the success of (the fantastic) Into the Spider-Verse and (the pretty shitty, but successful) Venom have given them some big britches. But you can tell how fucked this situation is that when Disney announced there would be no more MCU Spidey Sony was sent reeling. They thought the discussions were still ongoing. But Disney decided to turn the whole thing directly over to the court of public opinion.

All of which is to say...

@The-Sands said in Good or New Movies Review:

Total revenue for Sony last year was about $78.1 Billion (remember, Sony Pictures is only one part of Sony).

Considering how often SPE has been on the verge of being cut loose by Sony Corp, I'm not sure that they would agree with rolling their profits in together like that.

[Coin]

@Ganymede said in Good or New Movies Review:

@Arkandel said in Good or New Movies Review:

All of this isn't bluffing or base stupidity - it's just negotiating. Disney is using public opinion as leverage, making fans' outrage a factor in Sony's decision making.

That's all fine and dandy until public opinion realizes that Disney is the company that's actually playing hardball here.

The problem with that is that public opinion will also still be keenly aware that while disney playing hardball is a dickish move, they also control the entire MCU aside from Spidey (and Hulk, sort of, but Universal is like... whatever).

So it doesn't matter if public opinion thinks "Man, disney are being jerks", because Disney still controls every other aspect of this franchise everybody loves, so the public will still prefer Sony capitulate, even if Disney is being a dick. Because the public's interest lies in seeing more Spidey in the MCU, not which unfanthomably huge corporation gets the money.

[TheOnceler]

Here's hoping that Marvel shrugs and decides to plumb the depths of their eighty years of superheroics to see if they can't find any other conflicted teenage hero trying to use their abilities for good while balancing that with an actual life and family obligations while reflecting a diversity of background and experience. And if they could already be a really popular character that'd be cool, too.

But where would we find such a character? Such a beautiful unicorn?

Thanks for helping us look, Kamala! I'm sure we'll find him!

[Auspice]

Honestly, my big fear is that Sony will decide to reboot Spider-Man yet again and I am one of those people who was 'meh, Spider-Man, whatever' until Tom Holland.

Tom Holland is a treasure and I want him to keep playing Spider-Man damnit.

[Ganymede]

@Coin said in Good or New Movies Review:

So it doesn't matter if public opinion thinks "Man, disney are being jerks", because Disney still controls every other aspect of this franchise everybody loves, so the public will still prefer Sony capitulate, even if Disney is being a dick.

It matters to people who are more than barely sentient, like me.

But, yes, I suppose I should never underestimate the stupidity of people in large groups.

[Coin]

@Ganymede said in Good or New Movies Review:

@Coin said in Good or New Movies Review:

So it doesn't matter if public opinion thinks "Man, disney are being jerks", because Disney still controls every other aspect of this franchise everybody loves, so the public will still prefer Sony capitulate, even if Disney is being a dick.

It matters to people who are more than barely sentient, like me.

But, yes, I suppose I should never underestimate the stupidity of people in large groups.

You used "public opinion" as a noun with agency first; and historically public opinion is easily swayed towards whatever is immediately gratifying. >.>

[Thenomain]

I just want to know what perfect future gives us even more Into the Spiderverse.

[Ganymede]

@Thenomain

I'm pretty sure that the Spiderverse is separate and distinct from Spiderman's involvement in the MCU. I believe Sony Animation handled it.

[Ghost]

Marvel/Disney could very easily forget Spider-Man and focus on other teen heroes they own. @TheOnceler is right. I don't see them spending millions on one character when they just gained access to hundreds they didn't have before.

Harley - Iron Lad
Hawkeyes Daughter - Hawkeye
Cassie Lang - Stature
Sufi
Kamala
TeenGroot
SkrullKid from Captain Marvel - Hulkling
Wiccan and Speed - Easily done.

In fact, theyve already laid a lot of that groundwork

Boom. Young Avengers.

I also don't see Sony parting with millions in revenue from a functional movie empire when it's now popular again.

I think the big question is: Is Tom Holland contracted through Marvel/Disney or Sony? I have a feeling Holland was getting his paycheck from Sony, which means HollandParker is still possible.

Sony could very easily continue Spider-Verse, make Gwen or Milea live action, and put HardyVenom against Holland and they'll be fine. Marvel punched up their product for them.

[TheOnceler]

Big eh on Iron Lad. Since they've not done anything with Kang yet you don't really lose out by ditching the Iron Lad character.

I'd rather see Riri Williams as Ironheart. See if RDJ wants to earn a few million for a day of ADR and have him be her Jarvis.

[Thenomain]

@Ganymede said in Good or New Movies Review:

@Thenomain

I'm pretty sure that the Spiderverse is separate and distinct from Spiderman's involvement in the MCU. I believe Sony Animation handled it.

Then I have to believe that Disney buying Sony is not something I would want to see. I also want a chance for Squirrel Girl and Elasti-Lass vs. Spider Gwen. That pilot was ten tons of awesome.

[The Sands]

@Coin said in Good or New Movies Review:

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but while Sony Pictures is only part of Sony, it's like, the largest part, when it comes to net worth, by far.

I'm honestly not sure but I suspect it is not the largest part. The amount of electronics that Sony sells across the world is pretty staggering.

The truth of the matter, though, is that it doesn't matter how big Sony Pictures is in relation to the rest of Sony. It could be a small fraction. The point is that Sony itself is a good deal bigger than Disney (by about 30%).

Ask yourself this, if someone who earned significantly less than you do tried to buy one of your children's toys how likely do you think that they would be able to make you an offer so great you couldn't pass it up?

Remember, we aren't talking about some rich person offering you a million dollars for your child's toy. We aren't even talking about someone who earns close to what you earn. This is someone who earns about 75% of what you do per year.

[The Sands]

@Ganymede said in Good or New Movies Review:

Come on, people, Asian people are wise; that's why they let Disney essentially borrow their IP for a bit. Meanwhile, white people are dumb; that's why Fox gave up their IP without letting Disney attach their cash-cow to it first.

Actually, I think part of the reason Sony may be biting back is because they realized that Marvel/Disney has put them in a bad (but not unfixable position). Marvel/Disney set things up so they can easily move on with without Spider-Man while leaving Spider-Man in a position that is really hard to move forward (depending on how contracts were written Sony might not even be able to utter the names 'Nicholas Fury', 'Tony Stark' or 'Shield' in the next movie. Considering how instrumental they were in the previous two movies that could make writing a script really freaking hard).

In the case of Fox it wasn't them being 'dumb'. They decided they were done with movies and wanted to get out clean. Considering what we are seeing right now between Sony and Disney/Marvel that's not looking like a dumb choice.

[Ganymede]

@The-Sands said in Good or New Movies Review:

Actually, I think part of the reason Sony may be biting back is because they realized that Marvel/Disney has put them in a bad (but not unfixable position).

That may be part of it, but the rest of it is a matter of business. Sony realizes that they hold the cards that Disney wants, cannot move far with the IP alone (see, e.g., Venom), and apparently has few plans moving forwards. Their choices are to sit, lease, or sell, but leasing is only going to bring in value with one tenant.

Selling is the most reasonable decision, but Disney isn't in the mood to buy. So, now Disney is being a crabby dickface.

In the case of Fox it wasn't them being 'dumb'. They decided they were done with movies and wanted to get out clean.

Granted, it was not a dumb idea, but given Disney's desire to pull in some of the IP, but not all of it, Fox could have exploited the situation better.

[Auspice]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxy8udgWRmo

New Terminator: Dark Fate trailer.

I am so looking forward to it.

[Ganymede]

@Auspice

Fuck yes.

Mackenzie Davis is so fucking hot it hurts.

[Wretched]

@Ganymede @Auspice Fucking Unf.