Good or New Movies Review

[TheOnceler]

At some point in the last two decades did we decide that Maximum Carnage wasn't one of the worst crossover events in the history of comics?

You people are making me feel very confused.

[Arkandel]

@theonceler Eh, it's still an iconic Spidey villain we haven't seen in a movie. And the visuals are cool.

I mean who are we left with that would translate well to the big screen without being a ripoff of another character or too reliant on continuity (which would confuse the hell out of new audiences), yet feels like a real threat for Peter?

[Coin]

@theonceler said in Good or New Movies Review:

At some point in the last two decades did we decide that Maximum Carnage wasn't one of the worst crossover events in the history of comics?

You people are making me feel very confused.

The fact that Maximum Carnage, and also The Clone Saga,were horribly managed and produced, does not make their core ideas horrible. Both had, as one of their main flaws, that they were too fucking long, especially the Clone saga, but Maximum Carnage was hilariously, horrifyingly long, too.

This is a flaw that is fixed easily if you're making a movie, because a movie isn't long. You can have a long movie, but you're still going to get a story that distills the essences of those stories into something much briefer.

Maximum Carnage or The Clone Saga as movies could work, and tell interesting and evocative Spider-Man stories. saying they wouldn't work is like saying "man, Civil War was a MESS, it would never work as a movie". Except it did. Because they distilled it, changed it, and made it work.

[Jaded]

@theonceler
There really are not a lot of great iconic Spider Man villains that would fit well within a movie...and avoid the trashy representations of villains that we've already seen through four other Spider Man movies. I excluded The Lizard, I thought he was well done.

I think the only ones we have not seen now are Mysterio, Chameleon, and Tombstone. Maybe Kraven the Hunter?

Besides so far the Marvel movies tend to make the villains one-note characters, so Carnage is perfect for that.

[TheOnceler]

@coin said in Good or New Movies Review:

Maximum Carnage or The Clone Saga as movies could work, and tell interesting and evocative Spider-Man stories. saying they wouldn't work is like saying "man, Civil War was a MESS, it would never work as a movie". Except it did. Because they distilled it, changed it, and made it work.

They distilled it down by removing everything that wasn't the title or a single scene where heroes fought.

Unfortunately by keeping the title of Maximum Carnage you'd probably still have to have Carnage in there.

[Coin]

@theonceler said in Good or New Movies Review:

@coin said in Good or New Movies Review:

Maximum Carnage or The Clone Saga as movies could work, and tell interesting and evocative Spider-Man stories. saying they wouldn't work is like saying "man, Civil War was a MESS, it would never work as a movie". Except it did. Because they distilled it, changed it, and made it work.

They distilled it down by removing everything that wasn't the title or a single scene where heroes fought.

Unfortunately by keeping the title of Maximum Carnage you'd probably still have to have Carnage in there.

Except the fact where "carnage" is an actual noun that does not necessarily have to be the character Carnage.

In any case, it would be easy for a screenwriter to adapt the essence of Maximum Carnage (group of psychopathic supervillains decide to go all-out and create total chaos en masse and cause our heroes some serious fucking headaches and murder a bunch of people while being completely unhinged and thus testing our heroes's resolve when it comes to their moral and ethical boundaries) into a decent movie.

You might want Carnage, the character, in it. Sure. That's only a bad thing if the character is badly handled. Carnage has been used well and used horribly in comic books. Carnage would make for a fantastic villain (and you might not even need Venom, depending on how you work it, and still be able to find the "guilt" angle @Arkandel craves) for a Spider-Man movie centered around horrific acts.

The actual main issue with Maximum Carnage is that part of its narrative essence is that it's fucking messy and gory as all hell and there isn't a studio in the world that would endanger a Spider-Man movie/franchise by making it R-rated. There just isn't.

[Auspice]

@coin said in Good or New Movies Review:

@auspice said in Good or New Movies Review:

@arkandel said in Good or New Movies Review:

It goes without saying that anyone who spoils Infinity War here... let's just say we'll unleash @Ganymede completely on them.

God have mercy on your soul after that because no one else will.

I GET TO SEE IT AT ALAMO DRAFTHOUSE THURSDAY EVENING AND YOU MOTHERFUCKERS DON'T

Ahem.
There.
That's out of my system.

I get to see it in a movie theater on Thursday night (at around 8PM EST for your guys).

So we'll be seeing it at the same time since I'll be seeing it at 7pm CST.

[Auspice]

So I saw The Endless last night. Indie film, so not in all theaters.

It's Lovecraftian-inspired horror, if that's your thing (it's mine!).

This film is not perfect, I will say that up front. However, most of the flaws are in the script, so my complaints are coming from the perspective of someone who has a degree in the field. I am more critical than your average movie goer. The issue with movies is that you have to strike a balance between dialogue that appears natural and dialogue that carries the story along. In this case, they leaned a bit too far towards natural and it had a tendency to pull me out of the moment. Moreso than the humor (which is unusual for a psychological, suspenseful film to have so much of) that I actually loved.

The story between the two brothers was great and the flaws of the elder brother were well-done and provided the depth needed to carry the turning point of the story. There was no need for an exterior element to force the struggle (this is always, always a good thing! When you don't have to concoct a reason for things to go from bad to worse because it's already a part of the story). And like all good mysterious, Lovecraftian tales... there was so much to pick up on throughout the film that I'm sure I missed things.

I also really appreciated the fact that there was more to the story -- more stories told -- than just the central element (if you watch it, you'll understand).

That all said... The first act -- the introduction -- was a bit slow. Our "ordinary world" worked, but it just didn't do it for me. I feel like it could have been shorter to give us more time in the meat of the film itself or otherwise adapted to better introduce us to the brothers themselves. Either way, it just didn't really fit with the rest of the movie overall. Secondly, I feel like they could have spent a bit more time on the history of the <REDACTED> and shown more of the <REDACTED>.

Finally, even though I enjoyed the film and the mythology of it, I honestly and truly think it would have worked much better as a video game. If you watch it, you'll understand why.

***=Specifics on the Redacted above***

click to show

When the brothers finally go into the locked shed towards the end, we get glimpses of all the reels and tapes. The oldest dates I saw were back to the 40s, but the tent we see towards the beginning had a man from what I would guess was the late 1800s (a good time period for a Lovecraft-inspired film).

It's almost disappointing that things at that point are so rushed that we don't get a chance to see anything more than the 'ascension' itself.

I would have loved a reel from the 40s showing some of the members of the camp (another good Lovecraftian time period for 'more modern' settings). Anna's style of dress sort of hints at a 60s type feel, for example.

There's a lot of other unanswered questions (when exactly did Lizzy join the camp since she wasn't there when the brothers were kids, what happened to Jennifer & Mike's kid, is Jennifer stuck in the loop?, etc... but they aren't strictly necessary to have answers to. I just think the above would have actually made things much more engaging in the film mythos.

[Coin]

@auspice Def wanna watch.

[Jaded]

Okay. Infinity War is a huge movie. And it was good. Really good.

[Auspice]

JJ Abrams confirms Cloverfield sequel in the works for cinema.

[ThatGuyThere]

@arkandel said in Good or New Movies Review:

@jaded Oh sure, they could run Maximum Carnage or whatever

I can only pray that entropy manages to destroy all life in the universe before we get a movie version of Maximum Carnage.

[Ganymede]

@jaded said in Good or New Movies Review:

There really are not a lot of great iconic Spider Man villains that would fit well within a movie...and avoid the trashy representations of villains that we've already seen through four other Spider Man movies. I excluded The Lizard, I thought he was well done.

I'm sorry, you didn't like Keaton's Vulture? Where he literally is Birdman?

[Jaded]

@ganymede
I probably should have been more clear. Homecoming and the first Amazing Spiderman had the two best villains put on screen for Spider Man, in my opinion. That is why I said four other movies, so Maguire movies 1-3 and then Amazing 2.

I would have excluded Doc Ock from Maguire 2 but something about the way the character was handled bugs me.

[Lithium]

@jaded I liked Doc Ock in that movie. I also thought Sandman was pretty well done too.

[Ganymede]

@jaded said in Good or New Movies Review:

I probably should have been more clear. Homecoming and the first Amazing Spiderman had the two best villains put on screen for Spider Man, in my opinion. That is why I said four other movies, so Maguire movies 1-3 and then Amazing 2.

I think I'd exclude DeHaan's Harry Osborn. I liked his storyline in Amazing 2, from Peter's friend to enemy in a way that is relatable and without the wooden expression of James Franco.

Admittedly, I have used DeHaan's Osborn as inspiration for a PC in the past.

[Wizz]

@jaded said in Good or New Movies Review:

Okay. Infinity War is a huge movie. And it was good. Really good.

Can confirm, I liked it a lot.

BUT, and this is a huge BUT for any MSBites like me with kids: it is super, super fucking dark. Like, shockingly so, especially if you didn't read the comics and don't know what to expect.
I would strongly suggest leaving younger tots at home, it definitely earns its PG-13 rating if not honestly a little more.

[Ganymede]

Seriously, guys, please, please, please no spoilers. Even if they are hidden.

Like, can we give it a week or two?

Then, whatever, but, srsly, it just opened.

[Thenomain]

@ganymede said in Good or New Movies Review:

Seriously, guys, please, please, please no spoilers. Even if they are hidden.

Is there anything compelling you to click on them? Isn't this what the spoiler tag is for?

[Wizz]

If you're not careful to check your preview and you quote somebody's spoiler section the plugin sometimes doesn't spoiler the quoted text, you have to fiddle with it a little still I believe?

I'll remove that part but IMO it was honestly pretty minor and didn't give away plot.