nWorld of Darkness 1E v 2E

[Ganymede]

@d-bone said in nWorld of Darkness 1E v 2E:

11/7/5, 5/4/3. Try and match your dots to your abilities and concept as best as you can. The games are similar in that way, and those tilts and conditions are the effect of powers that often times are specified within the power/merit itself. (Fighting styles giving -1 to dex instead of a leg wrack tilt for example.) It creates a shared language of easily referable status effects.

As Magee101 previously pointed out, this is very similar to oWoD, and is also very similar to other systems, like L5R or the Silhouette System.

And becuase of this, this incredible similarity, there is no logical reason why 1e has to maintain a multiplicative xp system.

XP is presumably gained linearly per game session. Exponential costs follow the law of diminished returns. 1E makes it sensible to make a well-rounded PC over a specialist, whereas 2E does not favor either approach.

Either way, I'm not terribly interested in a debate? Because I think it's a matter of preference in the end. You don't like what I have to say, and I'm not here to convince you to change your mind or think differently; that's up to you.

[magee101]

@tinuviel said in nWorld of Darkness 1E v 2E:

@d-bone That's a very poor comparison. Best is an exceptionally subjective term - with some objective bars.
There's a reason oWoD games are still out there when nWoD exists. We just like what we like, leave us be.

This is the reason I asked for the conparison between 1e and 2e to stop in the ad thread. Cool great you prefer 2e. There is nothing wrong with that, go find a 2e game to play intead of tryijg to convert my 1e game.

[Jennkryst]

@ganymede said in nWorld of Darkness 1E v 2E:

XP is presumably gained linearly per game session. Exponential costs follow the law of diminished returns. 1E makes it sensible to make a well-rounded PC over a specialist, whereas 2E does not favor either approach.

Not... really. The diminishing returns makes it more sensible to begin as a specialist who then branches out and becomes well-rounded.

[Tinuviel]

@jennkryst Depending on how you decide 'sensible'. Being a specialist has never, in my experience, been sensible on a game.

[Ganymede]

@jennkryst said in nWorld of Darkness 1E v 2E:

Not... really. The diminishing returns makes it more sensible to begin as a specialist who then branches out and becomes well-rounded.

The law of diminishing returns posits that as total investment increases, the total return on investment as a proportion of the total investment (the average product or return) decreases. In other words, as you try to produce more, you have to spend constantly-increasing amounts of resources to get there.

As this applies to 1E's XP progression, it means that it costs more and more XP to get just one dot as a person gains more expertise.

While this makes it more sensible to begin as a specialist, it still means, as I said, that you become more well-rounded as you spend XP. Hence, "make a well-founded PC".

[peasoupling]

2E is objectively superior because CG doesn't give me as much anxiety and I have to do less math.

Unless that's not what objectively means.

[Tinuviel]

@peasoupling That's not what objectively means.

[Arkandel]

I like 2E mainly since it's better (not perfect, but a massive improvement) in terms of inter-sphere balance.

1E didn't even try in that regard; Werewolves are written as badasses but mechanically they're the golden retrievers of the WoD, and Sin-Eaters are written as quirky mediums but play like juggernauts.

[Lithium]

@arkandel Werewolves are bad asses, if you have a grapple specialized Rahu to go Garau and grapple and yoink defense, otherwise... yeah. Pretty bad.

[magee101]

@arkandel said in nWorld of Darkness 1E v 2E:

I like 2E mainly since it's better (not perfect, but a massive improvement) in terms of inter-sphere balance.

1E didn't even try in that regard; Werewolves are written as badasses but mechanically they're the golden retrievers of the WoD, and Sin-Eaters are written as quirky mediums but play like juggernauts.

They are not written like quirky mediums. They are written like half-dead juggernauts that are percieved as crazy by regular humans while they go about cleaning up the messes of the afterlife. Pdetty much everywhere you look in SE it makes reference to their tankiness and inability to die eaaily.

[Coin]

Never have I seen a comparison thread so hilariously mismanaged as this one in such a short amount of posts. Congrats, @D-bone.

P.S. I prefer 2E because the system is cleaner, the power levels are consistent, and a lot of the conceptual stuff is more to my liking.

I just wish they'd hurry the fuck up with Changeling and Sin-Eater so people can stop making 1e games. >.>

[Killer Klown]

Pretty much, Coin; and they made one small change (in a sea of many larger changes) to Mage that makes the spellcasting system far more palatable, especially in multisphere games. Specifically, you determine what your spell factors are before casting, allocate numbers and penalize your roll. This is different than 1e, where successes contributed to your primary factor (Which is why you could get people throwing 8-agains/rote/whatever on to that casting roll to get obscene levels of power). In this, all those after-market modifiers just make the effect harder to dispel; to get a more powerful effect you have to increase factors which, in addition to being limited by the system, incurs a -2 to the casting pool per increase, per factor, after a certain point.

[Rucket]

@coin said in nWorld of Darkness 1E v 2E:

I just wish they'd hurry the fuck up with Changeling and Sin-Eater so people can stop making 1e games. >.>

Absolutely this right here. Unfortunately it feels like that's going to be a long while still.

[Coin]

@rucket

It wouldn't even be that big of a deal if they hurried up with Scion / Aeon.

[WildBaboons]

@coin said in nWorld of Darkness 1E v 2E:

I just wish they'd hurry the fuck up with Changeling and Sin-Eater so people can stop making 1e games.

This I think is why people still make 1E games over 2E far more than a preference for 1E. Right or wrong there is a desire for multisphere games and Changling at least is a big popular one that people want

[Ganymede]

@wildbaboons said in nWorld of Darkness 1E v 2E:

Right or wrong there is a desire for multisphere games and Changling at least is a big popular one that people want

[magee101]

@ganymede can you explain why this is wrong plz?

[Ganymede]

@magee101

In my opinion, multi-sphere games represent the unnecessary complication of a system which, despite its appearances, appears clearly designed not to be run with groups of PCs from different source material.

[magee101]

@ganymede I fully agree that the system is clearly not designed for it. However I think it is far too cool to have a scooby gang of vampire changeling and mage or etc to stay away from it. I just hate when ppl bitch about the balance. To me it is just like any other party composition rpg. Find strengths and weakness, use strs, shore up weaknesses, work together.

[Thenomain]

@ganymede

I can't think of a single single-sphere WoD game that lasted as long as multi-sphere WoD games. At least using "how long can I play there?" as a metric of viability, I think people are willing to put up with complexity in exchange for longevity.