MSB, SJW, and other acronyms
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@surreality That word is certainly a United States-centric problem.
There's something to be said for imposing one culture on others. And that's an ethics discussion that I'm willing to have. But this political talk needs to talk a long fuckin' walk off of a short pier.
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It does show evidence of the issue Templari was talking about, admittedly. Not the thread for it, though.
I stay out of the political forum specifically because of ignorant comments like mood's.
ETA: And the ongoing efforts of Rick Sanchez and his genocidal tendencies. He's a real joy, he is.
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I stay out of the political forum because I don't need everything to be about goddamn politics.
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@insomniac7809 I guess my experiences with people who claim to be SWJ's come from things like gamergate, and while I know there are people out there who genuinely want to do good, I do, but I don't know why they would want to willingly be associated with the people who genuinely want to do bad.
Like, for example, if suddenly there was a flag that was associated with a thing let's call it WoD players, and then the people that represented WoD players were people like Spider, Rex, Elsa, Jeurg, Custodius, etc who all loudly did their thing under the umbrella of being a WoD player... Would you want to call yourself a WoD Player, or say you were an RPer and look how I'm helping all these newbies, or whatever.
I mean, I'm not saying I think people should stop trying to do good, I guess I'm just not a fan of labels?
Or like personally I don't like to call myself a feminist because of that extreme, and instead if I have to label myself anything, it's a humanist because I don't care what parts, colours, beliefs you have or where you come from, or any combination of the above, as long as you are a decent human being. I think everyone should be treated equally, and like a human. So yeah I'm female, and there's a hella lot of things not equal for us, but there's a hella lot of things not equal for everyone too, so feminist doesn't cut it for me. And that's aside from all the gross (for me) connotations about it.
TL;DR I'm weird, I guess? They do them, and I'll do me, and we won't do each other, probably.
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@insomnia said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:
@insomniac7809 I get that, I guess I just don't get the people who want the label and are trying to take it back. I mean, does doing good need a label? If you stand for something, stand up for it. I'm not saying being an SJW is a bad thing, but if I ever used it, it would be using it on people who are already acting like asshats in the first place.
Again it goes back to the whole intent thing and not really being able to read tone in writing.
Possibly because they refuse to buy into the right wing party line. Just like how the American Right, years ago, redefined liberal in order to insult and dismiss anyone on the left, they're doing the same with SJW. It's a favorite tactic in their play book.
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Few things:
- Wow. Just wow. I mean wow. I didn't expect a seven-page thread based on @Seraphim73 taking exception to someone using "cunt" and me backing the request (and, in the spirit of sincerity, I have used the word, as an insult no less, more than once--special shout-out to the time I used it on WORA to punctuate the end of a rant about VASpider and @Quibbler was like "I was not expecting you to use that word...").
- Shit needs to stop happening that makes me agree with @TheOnceler, we have enmity that goes back like ten years and I find it very distracting to agree with him on things without also having some reason to still be mad. Don't mess with the dynamic, dude. It makes holding on to my dated, pointless grudge super difficult. Stop it.
- The difference between Nazis co-opting a Buddhist symbol and creating the Swastika (i.e. taking positive symbology and ascribing to it something hateful) and someone being okay with referring to themselves as a SJW (or being referred to as) is that in the former, the values are applied to the symbol, whereas in the latter the symbol is applied to the values. It is very different to imbue a symbol with hateful rhetoric than it is to have a general attitude towards social justice be referred to (however mockingly) as "SJW". I mean, I didn't take offense to being called a SJW, I took (slight) offense at being called delusional for being one. I mean, I'm probably delusional in some other respects, but not that.
- I'm consistently amused when talk about "left-right-center" starts up here.
"Excuse the hell out of you. He's a bag of dicks. I'm a carefully curated box of cocks." -- to @GirlCalledBlu upon being misrepresented.
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@tnp said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:
@insomnia said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:
@insomniac7809 I get that, I guess I just don't get the people who want the label and are trying to take it back. I mean, does doing good need a label? If you stand for something, stand up for it. I'm not saying being an SJW is a bad thing, but if I ever used it, it would be using it on people who are already acting like asshats in the first place.
Again it goes back to the whole intent thing and not really being able to read tone in writing.
Possibly because they refuse to buy into the right wing party line. Just like how the American Right, years ago, redefined liberal in order to insult and dismiss anyone on the left, they're doing the same with SJW. It's a favorite tactic in their play book.
Funny, I heard a different story than that. Once again, though, that's political spectrum talk and probably not conducive to this debate, which is just another reiteration of:
How proactive should MSB's moderation style be?
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@coin said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:
- Shit needs to stop happening that makes me agree with @TheOnceler, we have enmity that goes back like ten years and I find it very distracting to agree with him on things without also having some reason to still be mad. Don't mess with the dynamic, dude. It makes holding on to my dated, pointless grudge super difficult. Stop it.
I gotta say, taking a nice long break from this poisonous hobby makes it pretty easy to
Devilshire is a million years ago. I've got so many other things to be angry about. I mean, I have a sister who voted for Trump.
maximum craveability
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@theonceler said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:
@coin said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:
- Shit needs to stop happening that makes me agree with @TheOnceler, we have enmity that goes back like ten years and I find it very distracting to agree with him on things without also having some reason to still be mad. Don't mess with the dynamic, dude. It makes holding on to my dated, pointless grudge super difficult. Stop it.
I gotta say, taking a nice long break from this poisonous hobby makes it pretty easy to
Devilshire is a million years ago. I've got so many other things to be angry about. I mean, I have a sister who voted for Trump.
Ouch.
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people should be nicer to racists bc the real racism is meanness
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@deadculture said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:
How proactive should MSB's moderation style be?
I think that's not the issue here. It's more of an open floor debate on what the limits should be than how they will be enforced.
Having said that common courtesy feels like it's pretty uncommon sometimes. For example I use "bitch" as a verb in my daily life but I don't see how it's a big deal to stop using it in the context of a single conversation if someone goes out of their way to ask; sure, I'd be free to roll my eyes or whatever if the context wasn't misogynistic at all, but why not just do it?
On the other hand if that same someone made a point of demanding or ordering me to use whatever terms they wanted to substitute overall I might take it the wrong way. If I was a poster on a forum and the admin went and said "hey, we don't condone the terms 'BC' and 'AD' in reference to time periods here" I would just stop logging on there because fuck that.
- He who takes offense when not intended is a fool. He who takes offense when intended is a greater fool.
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@arkandel You already have a definition of the limits.
It's in the rules.
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@deadculture hence my confusion at this topic being a thing.
It seems almost designed - or destined, whatever - to be nothing but argument about labels and who is the most OPPRESSED.
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@kanye-qwest I could see it as a discussion that feeds itself and moves goalposts forever (especially as people take this to the political arena, which gets into dangerous territory) and also an attempt at truncation of a derailment of the original thread.
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@deadculture But isn't the art of moving goal-posts far beyond any reasonable arena the done thing in this hobby?
He/Him
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@tinuviel We've made it into a time-honored tradition. Along with ruining livers.
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@deadculture Amen to that.
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Freedom of speech is an awesome thing but it takes responsibility and wisdom to correctly express your opinion and knowing when to keep shit locked up in your own dome. Any ten year old kid can tell you to go fuck your mother, that Hitler was right and to kys (kill yourself). Freedom of speech is not meant as a scapegoat to say what ever shitty horrible bullying cancerous thing you want to say, it is intended to keep people being opressed from being unable to express that without censorship. It is meant to help allow the ability to suss out corruption without fear of reprisals. People use freedom of speech as an excuse to be assholes and bullies
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@magee101 And unless they're holding a gun at your head or threatening you with grievous bodily harm, you can tell them they're an asshole and a bully.
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Count me among those who are confused that we have a 7-page thread spawned because someone used the c-word. Like... I'm not a big fan of it personally but I don't consider it any more of a "slur" than any of the other vulgar name-calling. "You're an <a--/b--/c--/d--/f--/m-f-->" -- they're all pretty horrible things to call each other and shouldn't be used in the constructive area regardless. In the hog pit? No comment.
I thought this was a more general topic spawned by some of the tangents we occasionally get into - like the "women in tech" discussion on the video game thread or someone posting something about healthcare in Less Gamey. There, I think there's a legitimate discussion to be had about moderation. Because as @Templari said - it's pretty easy for folks to be dogpiled just for expressing an unpopular opinion. (I'm not talking slurs or racism here; just general social hot-button issues.) I don't think that kind of dogpiling is constructive for the community any more than people trolling just to get a reaction.
