Dead Celebrities 2019

Derp · Apr 15, 2019, 7:12 PM

@Insomnia said in Dead Celebrities 2019:

Not a celebrity, but Notre Dame is on fire and has been for several hours.

Yeah, it's not looking great

TiredEwok · Apr 15, 2019, 7:42 PM

I am so sad. I know that places of great historical importance have burned down and been rebuilt in the past, but this is so devastating.

Derp · Apr 16, 2019, 7:25 AM

@TiredEwok

Apparently most of the damage is to the roof and spire. They released interior images earlier. It's not as bad as it could have been.

Grayson · Apr 16, 2019, 10:49 AM

It's nowhere near as bad as it could have been. At least one of the rose windows - possibly two - is intact. The towers are still up, and so is most of the stonework. Where there's a will to do it, Notre Dame can be restored. The spire was a reproduction, as was a chunk of the roof, and the important statues on the roof got taken down a few days ago as part of the restoration works.

York Minster went through a similar process when I was younger, and now there are thriving stonemasonry and stained glass workshops in York, and the fire is just another part of the building's history. Notre Dame will live on.

Aria · Apr 16, 2019, 11:33 AM

Kanye Qwest · Apr 16, 2019, 2:29 PM

Obligatory 'Do not donate your money to the Catholic church, one of the richest entities in the world. Donate to rebuild the churches in St Landry Parish if the destruction of churches makes you sad:

https://www.gofundme.com/f/church-fires-st-landry-parishmacedonia-ministry?fbclid=IwAR3ryvDSM4ka7rP-0S_WUqzOlOjYFM4vAcUZR2HHMl75REaM_Yd8ues3iH4

Grayson · Apr 16, 2019, 3:46 PM

I believe Notre Dame is owned by the French state, having been nationalised in 1905. The Catholic church have the exclusive right to use it (while having to fork out for running costs and keeping it free to visit), but they don't own it.

Rucket · Apr 16, 2019, 4:41 PM

@Kanye-Qwest said in Dead Celebrities 2019:

Obligatory 'Do not donate your money to the Catholic church, one of the richest entities in the world. Donate to rebuild the churches in St Landry Parish if the destruction of churches makes you sad:

https://www.gofundme.com/f/church-fires-st-landry-parishmacedonia-ministry?fbclid=IwAR3ryvDSM4ka7rP-0S_WUqzOlOjYFM4vAcUZR2HHMl75REaM_Yd8ues3iH4

100%. Besides I think some really rich dude already said he was going to drop 100 million euro for Notre Dame. So helping out these churches who were part of some asshole's hate-filled rampage is better, imo.

Sparks · Apr 16, 2019, 6:03 PM

@Rucket said in Dead Celebrities 2019:

@Kanye-Qwest said in Dead Celebrities 2019:

Obligatory 'Do not donate your money to the Catholic church, one of the richest entities in the world. Donate to rebuild the churches in St Landry Parish if the destruction of churches makes you sad:

https://www.gofundme.com/f/church-fires-st-landry-parishmacedonia-ministry?fbclid=IwAR3ryvDSM4ka7rP-0S_WUqzOlOjYFM4vAcUZR2HHMl75REaM_Yd8ues3iH4

100%. Besides I think some really rich dude already said he was going to drop 100 million euro for Notre Dame. So helping out these churches who were part of some asshole's hate-filled rampage is better, imo.

They've apparently already raised €700M for repairs and rebuilding, €500M of that from three people. Various companies have pledged big chunks of money also; I won't be surprised if my employer's parent company (the largest engineering/R&D company in France) ends up pitching in a pile of cash as well.

So I think Notre Dame's restoration is going to be financially fine; they don't need our donations. Whereas I suspect the St. Landry Parish churches need the money much more.

I've shed plenty of tears over the fire at Notre Dame because it pains me to see a part of our history damaged or destroyed; I haven't been able to cry over the St. Landry Parish churches because I am too angry for tears. I feel like the latter situation is a better place to put my money if I want to make a difference in someone else's life.

Aria · Apr 17, 2019, 12:17 AM

I think that it's entirely possible to regard both events as tragedies that induce strong feelings -- in one case heartbreak and in the other rage, at least for me. And that wanting to help in whatever form a person can is a natural, and worthy, instinct. If someone is fortunate enough to give to multiple causes, whatever they may be, good! There are literally thousands and thousands and thousands of problems in this world that need solving. And if they can only give to one, whether its of their money or time or energy or voice, that it should go where their heart and conscience pulls them.

No one can fix everything in this world. There's way more than enough awful shit to go around and finding the greatest or most deserving need doesn't eliminate the rest. So lets not play that game, yeah?

Ganymede · Apr 17, 2019, 2:37 AM

Not to unnecessarily politicize, but the fact that a few French oligarchs came out to fund the project but no American capitalists came out to donate to fix these relatively small churches is telling about the state of culture and religion in the United States.

insomniac7809 · Apr 17, 2019, 3:06 AM

@Ganymede said in Dead Celebrities 2019:

Not to unnecessarily politicize, but the fact that a few French oligarchs came out to fund the project but no American capitalists came out to donate to fix these relatively small churches is telling about the state of culture and religion in the United States.

It's really hard to compare the response when one of the churches in question is also a national heritage museum/historical site/national landmark/UNESCO world heritage site.

Tinuviel · Apr 17, 2019, 5:14 AM

@insomniac7809 And was thus broadcast around the world for hours as the incident arose.

I've never heard of these small churches, nor would I personally fund their repair whereas I definitely would for Notre Dame.

surreality · Apr 17, 2019, 11:17 AM

Not like I have a single dime to donate to anything lately, but ideally if I did? Not sure, ideally both. Neither because of tears shed because churches are burning, and each for very different reasons. There's really zero comparison beyond the surface here.

Aria · Apr 17, 2019, 11:29 AM

@surreality said in Dead Celebrities 2019:

Not like I have a single dime to donate to anything lately, but ideally if I did? Not sure, ideally both. Neither because of tears shed because churches are burning, and each for very different reasons. There's really zero comparison beyond the surface here.

^ Pretty much this. One is an act of race-motivated terror and should be deplored for the hatred it displays and the fear it caused. The other is a tragic accident that destroyed hundreds of years of history and art within a building that's been a cultural touchstone for millions of people around the world and over the centuries.

They are both awful, awful things that people have intensely emotional reactions to -- for very different reasons. Aside from "churches", they're not the same thing at all. Care about both. I promise you that if I can do it with as much of a misanthropic bitch as I am, you can, too.

surreality · Apr 17, 2019, 3:02 PM

@Aria Yup, that. I have to be blunt, too, I am a non-fan of religion, and very much a non-fan of the Catholic church much of the time. I'm just not blind to the fact that these places hold significance to people that aren't tied to religion at all, and are much more about community and culture in a broader sense.

I don't think shaming people for caring about Notre Dame is in any way helpful to anyone. FFS. Why even.

Kanye Qwest · Apr 17, 2019, 2:17 PM

@surreality No one was shaming anyone for caring about Notre Dame but you tilt at those windmills I guess?? Have to fill the day somehow.

Arkandel · Apr 17, 2019, 2:23 PM

Although some of the mainstream interest is religious I think a lot of the horror is about ancient antiquities - and important works of architecture, art, etc which just so happen to be related to Christianity because that's what people created at the time - being destroyed.

I could see the same amount of attention being given to a similar event happening in the Louvre, say. And that's what all the corporate interest is from - free publicity from all the public interest, showing they care for art, etc. IMHO, of course, this isn't (mainly) a religious thing.

Ganymede · Apr 17, 2019, 3:02 PM

@surreality said in Dead Celebrities 2019:

I don't think shaming people for caring about Notre Dame is in any way helpful to anyone. FFS. Why even.

That wasn't the point of my post, which was a critique of American culture and religion.

insomniac7809 · Apr 17, 2019, 3:19 PM

@Kanye-Qwest said in Dead Celebrities 2019:

@surreality No one was shaming anyone for caring about Notre Dame but you tilt at those windmills I guess?? Have to fill the day somehow.

Okay, c'mon, you made a post to discourage people from donating to the Notre Dame reconstruction because something else deserved the money more. Don't pretend that's coming out of nowhere.