What Types of Games Would People Like To See?

[Saturna]

@Arkandel

[Lemon Fox]

@saturna said in What Types of Games Would People Like To See?:

Imagine a space game on Arx code.
o.o

+1 Because I can only up-vote once.

[bored]

@Ghost Oh boy another 'serious writers' vs. 'people who like systems' post.

I don't think the divide you suggest is legitimate or really explains the Star Wars situation. Coded gear/economy systems are absolutely not any kind of requirement, but I think some acknowledgment of their presence and importance is hard to avoid. We can agree that the Millennium Falcon is a character at this point, right? Not just a ship? That a looming Star Destroyer is a powerful symbolic shortcut? That Boba Fett is popular because he had a cool visual design aimed at marketing and toys and it fucking worked? That a lightsaber is an elegant weapon for a more civilized age?

Playing a smuggler, your ship is going to matter. It might not matter that it rolls exactly +8 for 4d8 damage, but it being a scrapyard junker jury rigged to chaotic perfection vs. a well-maintained high end craft matters a lot to the story you're telling. Somehow, you need to acknowledge that the two things are different and it matters, or you're losing something both in the story and in any sense of mechanical verisimilitude. The same goes for a bounty hunter's kit being part of their identity, or representing a lightsaber as something other than 'just a sword.'

[ZombieGenesis]

As I've said, when I opened Clone Wars there was an immediate and overwhelming request for a gear and starship system. Just judge noting stuff wasn't enough. People wanted to be able to type +weapons or +stats/ship and see their stuff. We(staff) were afraid that the game would just turn into a tabletop simulator with things starting to go "I swing my lightsaber at you..." +roll but nothing like that happened. People were giddy to see their stuff but I noted no real increase in the use of the +roll system. People just RPed their shit as normal.

[Sparks]

@saturna said in What Types of Games Would People Like To See?:

Imagine a space game on Arx code.

o.o

Honestly, the Arx codebase wouldn't be ideal for it. We don't handle ranged combat terribly well in the combat system at present, and space/SF combat usually is based around ranged attacks. Plus, there's no spaceflight code, and nothing you could repurpose as spaceflight code. So for true hard SF, you'd almost do better to just start coding a new codebase atop Evennia, or write a space plugin for Ares. (Because frankly, Ares' scene system is amazing, to a degree I want to write an equivalent for Evennia someday.)

That said, there was an SF campaign I wanted to run, where the players would be colonists who discover ancient alien ruins on the planet they've settled. And that you could do with Arx's codebase; the magic and exploration systems could be repurposed for exploring alien ruins and learning how to use alien tech, avoiding security systems and hostile local life. And the clue/revelation system could be used for uncovering more and more of the alien Precursor culture's history and secrets.

But "I fly around in space and shoot things pew pew" vs "science fiction Indiana Jones [cue triumphant adventure music]" (or throw in a hostile force that wants to control whatever ancient tech is found in the ruins and has thus seized the colony and go full Tomb Raider reboot, where you want to find and repurpose the alien tech to free your friends and family still stuck in the now-occupied colony) are very different things.

(Dang it. Now I want to run space Indiana Jones.)

[Ghost]

@bored Mushdom isn't unified in terms of who wants the RPG systems vs who wants the writing. Some want one more than others, some want a mix, and every now and then you get some harsh min-maxxers that zero in entirely on the systems.

I get everything you're saying (re: Falcon is a character/setting, Star Destroyer imagery, etc) and I agree with you in spirit. It's just that when you use an existing RPG system you're going to have people who approach the game like a TT RPG system (I want my loot/credits!).

@bored said in What Types of Games Would People Like To See?:

It might not matter that it rolls exactly +8 for 4d8 damage, but it being a scrapyard junker jury rigged to chaotic perfection vs. a well-maintained high end craft matters a lot to the story you're telling.

It matters to the people who want to use the system. It may not matter to you, but for the people who figure all that time prepping a +sheet to use +rolls to get +inv means eventually having to roll dice to resolve challenges, the dice are going to be important.

Which, @ZombieGenesis is why I think you probably got so much attention on stats/gear. All that prep (and Jesus is d20 saga stat-blocky) before +apply suggests that the sheets are going to be important, and then they later figured out that the sheets werent the end-all-be-all.

If a mush makes me +sheet and learn a system, my initial assumption will always be that it's for a reason.

[faraday]

@bored said in What Types of Games Would People Like To See?:

Playing a smuggler, your ship is going to matter. It might not matter that it rolls exactly +8 for 4d8 damage, but it being a scrapyard junker jury rigged to chaotic perfection vs. a well-maintained high end craft matters a lot to the story you're telling. Somehow, you need to acknowledge that the two things are different and it matters, or you're losing something both in the story and in any sense of mechanical verisimilitude. The same goes for a bounty hunter's kit being part of their identity, or representing a lightsaber as something other than 'just a sword.'

Of course that stuff is going to matter, but the Millennium Falcon and Boba Fett's armor didn't get the story they have because there were stats and systems attached to them. They literally got that from the story and writing surrounding them. I just did a Storium game where the ship was very much a character in the story, and nary a stat in sight.

I have nothing against folks who want a RPG/simulator with an equipment list. To each their own fun! But I disagree with the notion that these things are in some way essential to the RP experience.

[Saturna]

@Sparks said in What Types of Games Would People Like To See?:

@saturna said in What Types of Games Would People Like To See?:

Imagine a space game on Arx code.

o.o

Honestly, the Arx codebase wouldn't be ideal for it. We don't handle ranged combat terribly well in the combat system at present, and space/SF combat usually is based around ranged attacks. Plus, there's no spaceflight code, and nothing you could repurpose as spaceflight code. So for true hard SF, you'd almost do better to just start coding a new codebase atop Evennia, or write a space plugin for Ares. (Because frankly, Ares' scene system is amazing, to a degree I want to write an equivalent for Evennia someday.)

That said, there was an SF campaign I wanted to run, where the players would be colonists who discover ancient alien ruins on the planet they've settled. And that you could do with Arx's codebase; the magic and exploration systems could be repurposed for exploring alien ruins and learning how to use alien tech, avoiding security systems and hostile local life. And the clue/revelation system could be used for uncovering more and more of the alien Precursor culture's history and secrets.

But "I fly around in space and shoot things pew pew" vs "science fiction Indiana Jones [cue triumphant adventure music]" (or throw in a hostile force that wants to control whatever ancient tech is found in the ruins and has thus seized the colony and go full Tomb Raider reboot, where you want to find and repurpose the alien tech to free your friends and family still stuck in the now-occupied colony) are very different things.

(Dang it. Now I want to run space Indiana Jones.)

I want a little bit of Indiana Jones in every game I play, tbh. I like discovering exploring. I like doin' stupid shit for either great rewards or death. >.> I guess it helps, too, that SPACE SHIP BATTLES aren't that high on my priority list. Not in a 'my character is manning a battle station' way, anyway.

If you give me a fog-of-war'd map, and tell me there's cool shit to find, I will play that game forever.

[Jennkryst]

@WildBaboons SPELLJAMMER WOT?

[Ghost]

A street-level superhero game (think: Punisher, Hawkeye, exceptional humans) loosely based on The Boys, where the focus is dodging law enforcement whilst murdering asshole superheroes who have gone too far.

Cells of vigilantes having intermingling drama, issues with their IRA weapon suppliers, fighting for turf with street gangs, and working together to trap CAPTAIN MEGA-AWESOME in a killzone so that innocent people will no longer die via collateral damage.

[Ghost]

@faraday here's an idea

BSG may have run its course, but the same methods/FS3 could be applied to an Apocalypse-Era Terminator game based out of a safe zone while rebels are fighting Skynet.

[Thenomain]

@saturna said in What Types of Games Would People Like To See?:

Changeling. CHANGELING. Changeling. Changeling.

I would LOVE a game with changeling. A solo changeling game, or just CtL offered in any of the current WoD games, I don't really care. Changeling is my jam, though.

http://fatesharvest.com/w/Main_Page

I'm just going to leave this right here.

[Ganymede]

@faraday said in What Types of Games Would People Like To See?:

I have nothing against folks who want a RPG/simulator with an equipment list. To each their own fun! But I disagree with the notion that these things are in some way essential to the RP experience.

Unfortunately, the Star Wars RPGs are pretty stat extensive. A corollary would be a D&D game with elves and dwarves and gnomes, but without the actual RPG, or a RP-intensive Battletech game, or a Final Fantasy game with no equipment or magic. Or Vampire: the Masquerade without stats.

Some settings have become tied over time to a system to the point where players expect certain system support.

[faraday]

@Ganymede said in What Types of Games Would People Like To See?:

Unfortunately, the Star Wars RPGs are pretty stat extensive. A corollary would be a D&D game with elves and dwarves and gnomes, but without the actual RPG, or a RP-intensive Battletech game...

The SW RPGs may be, but SW MUSHes have not always been. There is a 'market' for the less-systemy narrative games even in the Star Wars genre. Mechwarrior, the RPG for Battletech, wasn't overly crunchy, so I could absolutely imagine a RP-intensive Battletech game. Both settings have, in fact, been used in PbPost and Storium online games without stats/systems/etc.

I'm not challenging the underlying assertion that some percentage of MUSH players want these things. Clearly that's the case. All I'm saying is that there's enough of a percentage who don't to make a game work, if that's the kind of game you want to have.

[ZombieGenesis]

I think this discussion has taken a weird turn where we seem to be talking about whether there are two factions of MUers? One who require RPGs and stats and those who do not? I could be wrong but that's how it's reading to me.

The actual initial statement in regards to the FFG plugin for Ares and my subsequent experience with Star Wars D20 wasn't that people needed a system it's that if you're going to use that system then people expect you to use all of that system, not just part of it. With the FFG plugin there is no gear plugin, which is why the people I know who were thinking of doing a Star Wars Ares game decided against using that plugin. With my Saga game, people came expecting that the Saga system would be fully represented and all I had was a basic +sheet and a +roll command. Which people would have still been fine with I think if push came to shove but there was still an overwhelming desire to see the rest of the system done out for them to enjoy.

I don't think in either situation it came down to these players would have only played at a game that used an RPG system. With my game I think almost all the players would have played on any well made Clone Wars game. It's just that since we were using a system they wanted ALL of the system represented if for no other reason than to see their shiny toys displayed in a +gear command.

[Testament]

Original.

Theme.

Sci Fi.

That's all I want/need. Barring that, a game based in The Expanse theme.

[Jennkryst]

This should probably go elsewhere, and I'm too lazy to find where and/or dig up the last time I threw this discussion point down. Re: various people about Star Wars.

Yes, you CAN have a Star Wars game divorced from the SWAG of equipment and such.

But.

It needs to be using a system that is similarly divorced from equipment SWAG. SAGA edition has all of that typical d20 minutia, and all of the pros and cons of it. One of those cons is being equipment heavy. FFG has entire career paths that are centered around modifying, enhancing, and doing various neato things with equipment.

By saying you are using a ruleset which involves equipment to the degree that both of these systems do, but then to go a step further and say 'except just handwave it' is, as mentioned above, at-odds with the ruleset. Best to use a different system entirely at that point.

[ZombieGenesis]

I don't think anyone said anything about handwaving any part of the system. In fact, the use of judge notes was specifically mentioned. I can't speak for the Ares plugin but for the Clone Wars game we used jnotes and a simple "gear display" to show what players had because, largely, gear stats did not change from player to player. A heavy blaster pistol is a heavy blaster pistol. We didn't think there was a need for each player to display their own version of the weapon. Any mods could be noted in a jnote when they happened. People wanted more than that, however. We understood and implemented the system. It had nothing to do with "handwaving" equipment away.

Edited to say instead: I don't think either of the SW games had any intention of not treating gear with the respect it deserves in their respective systems. It's just that, to varying degrees depending on the system, gear stats don't change and are consistent from one player to another. It's not like PC sheets which will be wildly different. On my Clone Wars game someone could use the +roll system to do a to-hit roll and then roll the 2d8 or whatever for damage because they knew that's what a heavy blaster did for damage. There was no need to consult a +gear readout. We opted out of having such readouts in the beginning because we felt the work to payoff ratio was not high enough. I could put my coding time elsewhere. In the end, players very much wanted that system, however, complete with compiled to-hit numbers, multi-attack options, and the whole shebang. It was a really neat and slick system when it was finally done. I hate that i lost it to a HD crash a few years ago. Anyway, that's all I was saying in regards to gear and my game.

[Ghost]

@ZombieGenesis Sorry, I didn't mean to derail. I think some people may have mistaken me saying that there are 2 different mindsets in mushing as if one side is wrong, which isn't the case. My actual intention was just to point out that when putting together a mush that uses some kind of dice system, which dice system is used matters.

Mushing has a mix of free-formers and dice-chuckers.

[ZombieGenesis]

@Ghost I think you're absolutely correct. Take this OC superhero game some people are talking about. If he decides to go with System A then there will be X number of people who will play there and give the system a shot even if they aren't familiar with it, there will be Y number of people who play there because he chose System A, and there will be Z number of people who will opt not to play there for the same reason. There will also be a general expectation that if he uses System A than all of the various bits and pieces are supported in some way via code. Choosing to use an RPG system for your game is a huge decision and it's just the first one. Choosing what system to use is just as huge a decision.

Conversely, if you decide to use a "narrative trait" system there will be some people who opt not to play there for that reason. Or they may check you out to see how much information you require for an application. I know many people who are tired of the "write a thesis about the character you want to play" style of apps and who will not play on games that use that type of a system anymore (I'm one of them). So deciding NOT to use an RPG system will obviously also have consequences.

The only thing you can do as a game runner is making the game you want to play at with the system you enjoy and will be able to support and teach.