A bit of trouble on Firefly

[mietze]

Sadly stalking isn't a big deal to a lot of people. When I explained some stalking and harassment that happened to me and was scaring me at my business, I was told to "adult more" if I wanted to be a business owner and btw was I sure I wasnt just being too sensitive? Wouldnt want to besmirch that person's reputation if I'd just misinterpreted his actions. That really shocked and hurt me but it should not have really given what we have historically tolerated in behavior on games.

This is why I really have very little trust in our community's willingness to really deal with problems until a game runner proves otherwise, and I operate on the expectation that they will always err on the side of people who harass or have that history until it is too bad to ignore.

[Sunny]

@mietze said in A bit of trouble on Firefly:

Sadly stalking isn't a big deal to a lot of people. When I explained some stalking and harassment that happened to me and was scaring me at my business, I was told to "adult more" if I wanted to be a business owner and btw was I sure I wasnt just being too sensitive? Wouldnt want to besmirch that person's reputation if I'd just misinterpreted his actions. That really shocked and hurt me but it should not have really given what we have historically tolerated in behavior on games.

This is why I really have very little trust in our community's willingness to really deal with problems until a game runner proves otherwise, and I operate on the expectation that they will always err on the side of people who harass or have that history until it is too bad to ignore.

I mean, MSB isn't safe. I know it's not safe, and when I'm feeling unwell I avoid it because it's unsafe. And I don't mean in the Hogpit way, I mean in the 'if I'm actively harassed, if someone is trying to harm me, if somebody shows up and starts doing genuinely bad things I can trust that the people running it will help' -- it's just not safe around here. I participate in a lot of places that aren't safe, by choice and with my eyes open -- but yeah. This community as a whole is terrible for that, and even MSB is really, really unsafe in that fashion.

ETA: The copious amount of victim blaming that goes on here is another really big example of what I'm talking about.

[Scissors]

It's morbidly fascinating to read about this sort of behavior. The fact that when this guy's loudly blaming people for not having "adult conversations" with him, there is a complete and utter lack of self-awareness of the irony. I mean, even a dog will recognize its own reflection after looking into a mirror enough times.

Can people really be this blind to their own faults? Sometimes I think it is by choice.

[mietze]

@Scissors I think it's both. A lot of people probably don't think they are "as bad as" their behavior. But yeah, I do think in this particular case, he enjoys provoking reactions more than playing/participating. There are a lot of people like that, really.

[bear_necessities]

@Scissors He never wanted an adult conversation. He did not want to be told "no". He wanted to argue with me until I agreed to his concept without any changes. I told him what I thought he could tweak so his concept would work - he did not accept that. He went on to attack my players but I was already done when he started arguing.

I don't hesitate to tell people "this game is not for you". I did not know who @ZombieKerouac was when I initially received his application, but if I had known he was Shadow from Arx? I would have banned him for that alone. I don't need to open my game to people I don't find enjoyable, and I don't need to have a conversation with them about it.

[GreenFlashlight]

@mietze said in A bit of trouble on Firefly:

This is why I really have very little trust in our community's willingness to really deal with problems until a game runner proves otherwise, and I operate on the expectation that they will always err on the side of people who harass or have that history until it is too bad to ignore.

Yeah. That's the fragile part of the fragile happiness I mentioned. As much as I'm glad that victims are getting a voice and the community seems to be supportive, I've been through too much to believe that the support is generally more than lip service, saying the things you'd expect good people to say while doing nothing. I hope I'm wrong but I don't really think so.

Still. It's the kind of day where I need to hold on to the good feelings rather than the fear, so I'm gonna do that for now.

@Sunny said in A bit of trouble on Firefly:

I mean, MSB isn't safe. I know it's not safe, and when I'm feeling unwell I avoid it because it's unsafe. And I don't mean in the Hogpit way, I mean in the 'if I'm actively harassed, if someone is trying to harm me, if somebody shows up and starts doing genuinely bad things I can trust that the people running it will help' -- it's just not safe around here. I participate in a lot of places that aren't safe, by choice and with my eyes open -- but yeah. This community as a whole is terrible for that, and even MSB is really, really unsafe in that fashion.

I don't have anything to add here, just... letting you know I see you and you're not alone.

[Kestrel]

@mietze said in A bit of trouble on Firefly:

Sadly stalking isn't a big deal to a lot of people. When I explained some stalking and harassment that happened to me and was scaring me at my business, I was told to "adult more" if I wanted to be a business owner and btw was I sure I wasnt just being too sensitive? Wouldnt want to besmirch that person's reputation if I'd just misinterpreted his actions. That really shocked and hurt me but it should not have really given what we have historically tolerated in behavior on games.

This is why I really have very little trust in our community's willingness to really deal with problems until a game runner proves otherwise, and I operate on the expectation that they will always err on the side of people who harass or have that history until it is too bad to ignore.

On nearly every game I've played, this has been the case. I have been labelled the psycho bitch making trouble for men. I've been forum/channel banned on HavenRPG for calling out the arseholes repeatedly stalking and harassing female players on that game. (Hi, Thrace/Issac/Dusk/MisterE/Prometheus & Azazello/Cullen, if you're reading this, fuck you both.)

On TSS, this is not the case, and my trust in @Seraphim73 & @GirlCalledBlu is a big part of why I play their game(s).

@Scissors said in A bit of trouble on Firefly:

It's morbidly fascinating to read about this sort of behavior. The fact that when this guy's loudly blaming people for not having "adult conversations" with him, there is a complete and utter lack of self-awareness of the irony. I mean, even a dog will recognize its own reflection after looking into a mirror enough times.

Can people really be this blind to their own faults? Sometimes I think it is by choice.

I don't think this person lacks self-awareness. I don't think he's blind to his own faults.

I think he knows exactly what he's doing and is being purposefully manipulative by accusing others of faults he knows they might care about, but that he personally doesn't. He's playing gotcha. Can't accuse people of being immature if you can't conduct yourself maturely, now can you? Don't lose face. Stay dignified. Be tolerant. Even as I behave in a manner that is undignified, intolerant and inconsiderate towards you. Gotta prove you're better than me! Otherwise we're the same, you and I; don't stoop to my level.

It's just another variation of the ol' 'so much for the tolerant left'.

[Sunny]

@GreenFlashlight said in A bit of trouble on Firefly:

Still. It's the kind of day where I need to hold on to the good feelings rather than the fear, so I'm gonna do that for now.

There are people in the community these days that ARE safe, that do hear us, and that are willing to do the work and have done the work, and walk the talk they've talked. There are games I feel safe on. We saw evidence here in this thread of that with TSS. Real solid progress right there. There's definitely good for you to hold onto. We're not where we'd like to be, but I do very much believe that there's been a LOT of progress in the last 5 years or so.

[JinShei]

@Scissors said in A bit of trouble on Firefly:

It's morbidly fascinating to read about this sort of behavior. The fact that when this guy's loudly blaming people for not having "adult conversations" with him, there is a complete and utter lack of self-awareness of the irony. I mean, even a dog will recognize its own reflection after looking into a mirror enough times.

Can people really be this blind to their own faults? Sometimes I think it is by choice.

I don't think this person lacks self-awareness. I don't think he's blind to his own faults.

I think he knows exactly what he's doing and is being purposefully manipulative by accusing others of faults he knows they might care about, but that he personally doesn't. He's playing gotcha. Can't accuse people of being immature if you can't conduct yourself maturely, now can you? Don't lose face. Stay dignified. Be tolerant. Even as I behave in a manner that is undignified, intolerant and inconsiderate towards you. Gotta prove you're better than me! Otherwise we're the same, you and I; don't stoop to my level.

It's just another variation of the ol' 'so much for the tolerant left'.

I definitely got this. He gotcha'd so gleefully that as soon as I banned him he ran to discord channels with the log claiming he caught an Admin treating him badly because I called him on his shit. I was grateful for both channels owner's disinterest or rejection of his bullshit.

[GirlCalledBlu]

‍️I'm not even sure what he's talking about here-- but OK.

ZombieKerouac
First off, There was no issue on TSS. you asked me to leave so I did.

And second? Lynn can say its a bug and requires just a simple patch all she wants. But even she knows there are ways around it. From ghosted IPs to proxy sites and other means as well.

Just pointing out the falsehoods in your posting. And in the false hopes that Lynn aka faraday is givin you all about how her platform is the safest out there.

Though thank you for already having made your decision before we ever even spoke on game. And for your husband misrepresenting what occured. Since there were no issues with me on your game. No policy violations.

Funny enough, I know you both from Star wars.

Anyways enjoy your weekend Blu. And look forward to talking again sometime.

[mietze]

That is creepy as fuck.

[JinShei]

@GirlCalledBlu That is exactly the gaslighting behaviour I was talking about.

[juke]

Sounds to me like he's trying to make mountains out of molehills in an effort to be sooOOoOOo threaaateninggggg, oh nooooOoOOo. SECUUUURITY FAULLLLLLTS, I USED FARA'S REAAAAAAL NAAAAAME, I'M SUPER SERIAAAAAAL (even though she freely puts it on Ares-related content)...

They're just a creep and they thrive on engagement and attention. Using her name, talking vaguely about having encountered you before, vaguely threatening to redux this whole mess...this person just wants to feel they can control other people and these are all painfully juvenile, transparent manipulations.

The absolute worst thing anybody could do to him would be to insta-ban him as soon as there's an ID and not interact with him after the fact, because if you don't care, he's got nothing. All he can do is inconvenience you.

The ability to sneak around IP bans and stuff makes it hard to whack these moles for good, for sure. It would be lovely if we could come up with a system to not. But he's probably reading this thread and jerking it to all of the @ mentions he's getting, and I am mostly wondering why this person is even allowed here. (Unless I missed something and the @ mentions of his MSB handle are just leading to a dead account in which case, excellent, very good, carry on!)

[GirlCalledBlu]

Every time he calls Faraday, "Lynn," it creeps me out.

[Auspice]

He's like
'I KNOW HER REAL NAME CUZ I'M A HACKER'
except she posts it on the Ares website so he's a hacker like

[mietze]

I can see why he has no contact orders.

That is straight up creeper stalker ass writing right there, I actually feel really kinda ill just seeing jt.

Blue did he send you this in a PM here?

[juke]

@GirlCalledBlu said in A bit of trouble on Firefly:

Every time he calls Faraday, "Lynn," it creeps me out.

Then it's working as he intended.

Making it personal, erasing conventionally polite buffer zones -- these things are the equivalent of getting into someone's personal space uninvited. It can feel threatening and still be plausibly deniable, and that gap is where these assgoblins try to live, and unfortunately where they thrive. They want to make people uncomfortable to create a power imbalance and they'll do it however they can. The number of attempts to control how you feel in the thing you pasted is absurd.

Good on you guys for protecting your players. I'd block any communications you get going forward, and keep the banhammer ready. Maybe he'll get bored eventually.

[Taika]

shudders Yeah, this is all him. I think he got banned from CoS in May or June, and it opened in November and he STILL logs on to make noise like some obsessive, gloating toad. It's really pathetic. Him and some friend of his generically known(?) as Kitty (she wasn't banned, but asked to leave until we opened cause woah). In fact those two almost kept the game from opening entirely cause if their soul-sucking bs.

[GirlCalledBlu]

@mietze he did.

[GirlCalledBlu]

@Taika said in A bit of trouble on Firefly:

Him and some friend of his generically known(?) as Kitty (she wasn't banned, but asked to leave until we opened cause woah). In fact those two almost kept the game from opening entirely cause if their soul-sucking bs.

Uhhh. Is that the same Kitty who was the crazy staffer on Generations of Darkness? Because Kitty + Playing with us on Star Wars. My suspicions deepen—