Jan 7, 2020, 7:21 PM
Good TV
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@Jaded I've only ever heard good things about Anya Charlotra's portrayal of Yennefer. Personally I think she's the best part of the whole show.
there's also the Polish fandom, which in general wasn't positive toward any race bending
This I've caught. While part of that is surely a touch of old fashioned racism; the Eastern Block isn't exactly short on it, it also seems a bit more complex. Something along the lines of not wanting to get caught up in the American race and diversity politics, when in Europe its Poles who have gotten shit on for centuries, and this being their time to shine and be seen. As opposed to being portrayed in ways to suit American sensibilities. Anyone following Brexit'll have caught on the general 'shitty polaks coming to steal our jobs' sentiment simmering, and that's common enough across the board. From the Polish perspective, there's little conception of white privilege, or guilt, having had no slaves, no colonies, no empire, mostly just being victim to them. The places they're likely to go, they're the second class citizens from the second class culture (though its changing, at least where I live - white Slavs doesn't quite get the usual suspects' blood boiling like it use to, not when there's Syrians and Afghans - anything muslim really - and Africans to panic about). Its one of the most homogeneous countries in Europe, too, with the vast majority of migrants being from Ukraine (especially the Ukraine that used to be Poland) or other Slavic countries. So when its their fantasy culture on display, they're like to expect it to be pretty darn white.
Is that naive? Sure. Is there a bit of racism there? Yeah. Is adding a bit of diversity a sign of American Cultural Imperialism, or Cultural Appropriation? Heh. Though reading this one guy going on a bout it made me chuckle, and I've been searching for that article (or blog post, or whatever), to link, but to no avail. But there are some complex currents working through the responses that I've found interesting to read and ponder a bit on.
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At this point two things are true:
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Not everyone will like something but those who don't - whether they're in the minority or not - will get loud and be noticeable. What would bloggers clickbait on? That no one complained? Who's going to click on that?
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If any character not explicitly defined as non-Caucasian in any work of fiction is depicted by a non-white actor people will complain. Oh. Well.
My personal opinion is that as long as it makes some sense I don't care. For example when Dracula depicted some black and Asian nuns among the cast I didn't care because that world already has vampires and shit so maybe racism works differently there. Hell, for all I know maybe it happened more often than I'm aware of - it's plausible, and that crosses my bar.
So yeah, it probably comes down to racism. Just make good casting choices and make the show good, then things will magically work out.
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@Ghost said in Good TV:
The single wierdest casting choice to me is Fringilla because unlike a lot of other characters she has a lot of family and is supposed to hail from what is basically fantasy france. Does that mean all of Toussaint will now be sub-saharan African or what?I don't see too much trouble with her, tbh? Fringila is almost a non-character in prior media. She features in a chapter or two of one book (in which all she does is sleep with Geralt), and a brief appearance during one quest in W3 (in which she mostly is part of some background dialogue joking about how nearly everyone present has slept with Geralt), and in ensemble with a few other sorceresses a couple more times beyond that.
TV Fringila is essentially a new character, so its hard to say there's heavy expectations of what she should be like. I like that they've made her family prominent, since Artorius was another interesting but highly obscure character but putting him on the council and highlighting the obvious nepotism was a good story beat (and arguably, the casting makes it easier for the audience to read that when the names otherwise might go over their heads - ah, the two black mages are related!) I'm not sure having one Toussaint char means the entire Duchy has to be black? It might affect Anna Henrietta's casting (since they're also relatives at some distance) but... OK?
@Jaded I've only ever heard good things about Anya Charlotra's portrayal of Yennefer. Personally I think she's the best part of the whole show.
there's also the Polish fandom, which in general wasn't positive toward any race bending
This I've caught. While part of that is surely a touch of old fashioned racism; the Eastern Block isn't exactly short on it, it also seems a bit more complex. Something along the lines of not wanting to get caught up in the American race and diversity politics, when in Europe its Poles who have gotten shit on for centuries, and this being their time to shine and be seen. As opposed to being portrayed in ways to suit American sensibilities. Anyone following Brexit'll have caught on the general 'shitty polaks coming to steal our jobs' sentiment simmering, and that's common enough across the board. From the Polish perspective, there's little conception of white privilege, or guilt, having had no slaves, no colonies, no empire, mostly just being victim to them. The places they're likely to go, they're the second class citizens from the second class culture (though its changing, at least where I live - white Slavs doesn't quite get the usual suspects' blood boiling like it use to, not when there's Syrians and Afghans - anything muslim really - and Africans to panic about). Its one of the most homogeneous countries in Europe, too, with the vast majority of migrants being from Ukraine (especially the Ukraine that used to be Poland) or other Slavic countries. So when its their fantasy culture on display, they're like to expect it to be pretty darn white.
Is that naive? Sure. Is there a bit of racism there? Yeah. Is adding a bit of diversity a sign of American Cultural Imperialism, or Cultural Appropriation? Heh. Though reading this one guy going on a bout it made me chuckle, and I've been searching for that article (or blog post, or whatever), to link, but to no avail. But there are some complex currents working through the responses that I've found interesting to read and ponder a bit on.
This is a good analysis and I have some mixed feelings, myself.
Obviously it's racist. But you hit the nail on the head about how they feel about the use of what they see as a (rare) cultural export from their country that has gained such fame being co-opted by others and then wrapped up in a political discourse that simply doesn't exist in their country. There's also a parallel issue, both for Europeans but also (moreso) for immigrant Poles - and basically for all slavs - that Western media tends toward highly caricatured, racist depictions of these groups when they bother to identify them: IE, everyone from anywhere east of Germany is either a Niko Bellic-esque tracksuit wearing vodka-swilling mobster, or a low-class, smelly, Ruritanian (look up that word) dullard. So I can understand that it's divisive. Of course the counter-counter argument is that the Witcher is spreading a broader view of some of their cultural elements and that having one or two black people won't instantly ruin that.
On the plus side, thanks to the show, the books are now NYT bestsellers and keep selling out physical copies.
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I feel obligated to share that The Mighty Boosh is currently on Hulu.
Saying the quiet parts out loud since 1996.
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Got into Netflix LOST IN SPACE.
I'm a Neil Marshall fan. I'm enjoying it. It's a very classic-type adventure show, like the Fraser Mummy movies.
Delete the Hog Pit. It'll be fun.
I really don't understand He-Man -
I'm a Neil Marshall fan. I'm enjoying it. It's a very classic-type adventure show, like the Fraser Mummy movies.
What do you mean by movies? Only one was ever made, sadly.
- He who takes offense when not intended is a fool. He who takes offense when intended is a greater fool.
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I'm a Neil Marshall fan. I'm enjoying it. It's a very classic-type adventure show, like the Fraser Mummy movies.
What do you mean by movies? Only one was ever made, sadly.
Was the Scorpion King movie with the Rock not enough for you? Ingrate.
Delete the Hog Pit. It'll be fun.
I really don't understand He-Man -
I'm a Neil Marshall fan. I'm enjoying it. It's a very classic-type adventure show, like the Fraser Mummy movies.
What do you mean by movies? Only one was ever made, sadly.
Was the Scorpion King movie with the Rock not enough for you? Ingrate.
That movie was the beginning of a glorious era of self-aware action comedies starring Dwayne Johnson and we should all be profusely thankful.
"Excuse the hell out of you. He's a bag of dicks. I'm a carefully curated box of cocks." -- to @GirlCalledBlu upon being misrepresented.
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Anyone have thoughts on Netflix's Messiah?
Pay no attention to me. I'm old, jaded and generally unfriendly. I am prone to fits of stupidity, but I am still unique, just like everyone else. ~~ Current President of the Anti-Faraday fan club.
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@Seamus No deep thoughts since I am at work, but that show reeled me in fast and I watched 5 episodes yesterday.
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The single wierdest casting choice to me is Fringilla because unlike a lot of other characters she has a lot of family and is supposed to hail from what is basically fantasy france. Does that mean all of Toussaint will now be sub-saharan African or what?
Looking at my recent family holiday photos, in which my kid is the only brown kid playing with her predominantly blonde-haired, blue or hazel-eyed cousins, I can safely assure you that one or two black people in a family does not make the entire bloodline black, and I find this statement/query/line of thought vaguely offensive. I'm not calling you racist or anything, but it did raise my hackles in that 'what, we dirtied your entire gene pool by showing up once?' kind of way.
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Witcher vs Mandalorian. Who won?
Google Analytics has released a graph based on account signups correlating with the release dates of each show. Witcher is blue.
Advantage: Booty McSilverfox
Delete the Hog Pit. It'll be fun.
I really don't understand He-Man -
Honestly, The Mandalorian has not stuck with me. I intend to see the entire series, but the first episode did not pull me in the way I thought it would. Beautiful visuals and gun-play is great, but I find it difficult to give a shit about the main character.
Contrast that with The Witcher. It was easier for me to understand Geralt; I described him to my partner as "Wolverine with a sword." The writing was better -- it helps that they stuck the "best" line from Sapkowski in the first episode -- and the later episodes increase the interest in the main characters.
With The Mandalorian coming out with individual episodes, I can understand why people may have wanted to wait until the entire series was out before watching it. That might have been the strategy. But I also think that Disney is really most popular in North America, whereas I think The Witcher has a more global appeal.
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I'm the opposite.
I couldn't finish the first episode of Witcher. I felt like I was watching a Labyrinth fan fic wherein the director went 'ok now let's pretend they're all serious but not lol'Mandalorian was so much more engaging.
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The Mandalorian grabbed all the classic Old West/Samurai Film plots and did them quite well. It's a hell of a space opera love letter to them all.
The Witcher was great fun to watch (as someone who never played the game or read the books) as a fantasy saga.
They're too different to readily compare re: quality for a variety of reasons, I feel, as they're different animals from very different kinds of sources. Even beyond that, the similarity is more or less 'eh?' outside of 'will appeal to geeks'. Different slices of geekdom in a lot of ways, really.
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I'm with @Ganymede
While I loved the Mandalorian, I feel like the following statements about it are true
- It is a wonderful live action Star Wars effort
- It is easier digestible
- Its greatest strength and weakness is that it hinges heavily on cowboy/samurai/lone wolf and cub
- At times it seemed too self aware of its own fandom
- Does it receive an instant pass because of Mandalorians and Baby Yoda?
- Well done on the Clancy Brown cameo
The Witcher is a concept that is more fresh, more adult, and IMO has more depth. I dont know where either series is going to go, but I know where Mandalorian won't go, so there are limiting constraints.