Good TV

[Aria]

@cupcake said in Good TV:

Yes, I thoroughly enjoyed Shadow and Bone, BUT...

I started a rewatch of The Nanny and I am genuinely surprised at how well it holds up. Also, Fran Fine is officially now my style icon, big hair and all.

@Cupcake

[Aria]

@solstice said in Good TV:

@ortallus

Horimiya is an absolute adorable marshmallow of a show. Good on you for stepping outside of your usual sphere.

This is where I frantically tell to anyone who listens that even though 95% of all things are shit, that 5% still exists for anime, and if anyone needs a starting point, let me know.

Giant Dolly Parton, Queen of the Universe meme now out of the way, double-posting to say....

1. I have not read the Shadow & Bone novels and was not familiar with the Grishaverse when I started watching the show. That said, I did thoroughly enjoy it, even without any understanding of the world it was set in beyong my own understanding of actual history and catching the influences on each of the fictional cultures presented. Would I have understood more if I'd read the books? Definitely, but then I also would've walked into the show with expectations, so maybe it was actually to me advantage.

2. I would actually appreciate some solid recommendations, @Solstice. There is some great anime out there, I'm sure, but I definitely grew up in the late 90s/early 00s when it was taking the general nerd world by storm, complete with overzealous fans who insisted that all anime was great and fantastic and must-watch and and and purely based on the fact that it was anime, without any regard for whether or not it was actually good. That put me off it for some time (with the exception of Miyazaki, who is beautiful and charming and I adore everything he does) as those sorts of fanbases often do.

I still haven't been able to bring myself to watch more than a few episodes of Dr. Who precisely because of overzealous Whovians I know, as I didn't quite understand what was happening in the ones I tried and I absolutely did not want to deal with their reactions if I asked.

[Wizz]

Just finished Shadow and Bone last night and I think for the most part I agree with y'all, it was stellar. Production values especially stood out to me, the special effects were great and the costuming was all awesome (admittedly, I am a huge sucker for the aesthetic of that time period). I do think the last episode's dialogue got pretty clunky and I actually laughed out loud when I wasn't supposed to at a few lines just for the sheer cheese factor--

***=For example***

click to show

When the Crows and Zoya are pointing out after the final battle that things are only going to get more dangerous for Alina and lots of people will come for her and Mal is all "WELL THEY'VE GOTTA COME THROUGH ME FIRST" I actually rolled my eyes and snorted. Oh really, Lumpy McSoldierface? Completely mundane dude with no particularly impressive skillset who has spent probably 75% of the show on the ground bleeding out and completely incapacitated? I bet they're shaking in their boots!

--but the relationships and motivations all felt real for the most part and there was a lot of chemistry between all the actors on screen.

If I had one real disappointment, it was just a personal peeve about fantasy tropes:

***=Spoiler***

click to show

I liked how they subverted a few with a wink and a nod, like the performing troupe the Crows traveled with presenting "Alina" as this little blonde white woman with big blue eyes, while the real Alina looked on and laughed wryly about it.

But there's another scene where General Kirigan is monologuing at Alina about how they will rule together after he's put the collar on her and she gets really upset and says basically like, "hey, we could have had this, but you had to be Mustache-Twirling Evil and completely lied to me and betrayed me." I shared her frustration! A plot where he had actually come clean to her for the most part and manipulated her into using the Fold against Revka's enemies, where she then maybe would have had to struggle more with the ambiguity of his plan (considering also that we're at least supposed to sympathize with the guy a bit given his backstory) and her own power, would have been WAY more interesting and ambitious than what we got, just imho.

Also, more minor by far but like, I am just tired of the whole Shadows/Darkness Power=Inherently Evil, Light/Sun Power=Inherently Good trope. Wouldn't it have been cooler if their powers were reversed? Unique, at least. Anyway.

[Arkandel]

@wizz At least one of your concerns was addressed by the author. She was addressing Alina's race in an interview - since she was described as a blonde white woman in the books but mixed race in the show - and attributed the lack of diversity to her own shortcomings as a young author when she first wrote them.

I feel many other tropes could probably be explained the same way.

Also it's hilarious people online are still butthurt about white characters being race switched. Unless it stretches suspension of disbelief... you're already coping very well with people shooting energy beams out of their hands, y'all. Do you really draw the line at them also being Asian?

[Wizz]

@arkandel said in Good TV:

She was addressing Alina's race in an interview - since she was described as a blonde white woman in the books but mixed race in the show - and attributed the lack of diversity to her own shortcomings as a young author when she first wrote the books.

I haven't read the books, so I didn't realize that was a studio change! Huh. It certainly adds a ton more depth to her character that wouldn't have really been there otherwise, and gives us that fun moment I mentioned, so...wow, props to Netflix, and screw the haters!

Also, that the author was pretty new really explains the other minor thing I found kinda cheesy, how pretty much all of the on-screen recurring characters have a romantic pairing or two. It felt so Young Adult Novel, haha!

[Ortallus]

@wizz YA Novels sell to the broadest audience.

[Coin]

@wizz said in Good TV:

@arkandel said in Good TV:

She was addressing Alina's race in an interview - since she was described as a blonde white woman in the books but mixed race in the show - and attributed the lack of diversity to her own shortcomings as a young author when she first wrote the books.

I haven't read the books, so I didn't realize that was a studio change! Huh. It certainly adds a ton more depth to her character that wouldn't have really been there otherwise, and gives us that fun moment I mentioned, so...wow, props to Netflix, and screw the haters!

Also, that the author was pretty new really explains the other minor thing I found kinda cheesy, how pretty much all of the on-screen recurring characters have a romantic pairing or two. It felt so Young Adult Novel, haha!

Even in the books, a lot of the tropes that are cheesy get turned on their heads eventually. Some don't. She's pretty good at walking a fine line between the two.

[Groth]

@wizz said in Good TV:

Also, that the author was pretty new really explains the other minor thing I found kinda cheesy, how pretty much all of the on-screen recurring characters have a romantic pairing or two. It felt so Young Adult Novel, haha!

It's my biggest peeve with the books. She paired up literally everyone, it felt a bit like reading a shipping fanfic.

[Goblin]

Just read this, and feel slight excitement.

https://variety.com/2021/film/news/world-of-darkness-eric-heisserer-christine-boyland-vampire-werewolf-1234961512/?fbclid=IwAR2tn8GeYriuUKnzK11hig_7d3seC-47dDpN5xtdw42eykpyHHcsk0_Haq8

[Wizz]

@goblin

Duuuuuuuude, that is a great creative team. I am psyched!

[Ortallus]

@goblin said in Good TV:

Just read this, and feel slight excitement.

https://variety.com/2021/film/news/world-of-darkness-eric-heisserer-christine-boyland-vampire-werewolf-1234961512/?fbclid=IwAR2tn8GeYriuUKnzK11hig_7d3seC-47dDpN5xtdw42eykpyHHcsk0_Haq8

Couldn't be worse than their last attempt at WoD television. Though tbf, I liked it, cheesy though it was. We'll see!

[Wizz]

@ortallus

Kindred: The Embraced is a beautiful and perfect time capsule of pure cheeseball glory from the 90's and I SHANT HEAR A WORD AGAINST IT

[Ortallus]

@wizz That and Dresden Files are both classic "We have no idea what we're doing but we're gonna fucking try anyway!" buffoonery.

[Ortallus]

@solstice said in Good TV:

@ortallus

Horimiya is an absolute adorable marshmallow of a show. Good on you for stepping outside of your usual sphere.

This is where I frantically tell to anyone who listens that even though 95% of all things are shit, that 5% still exists for anime, and if anyone needs a starting point, let me know.

Ermagerd, did you know this was a thing? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzlA0sYMUCU

[Arkandel]

@wizz said in Good TV:

I haven't read the books, so I didn't realize that was a studio change! Huh. It certainly adds a ton more depth to her character that wouldn't have really been there otherwise, and gives us that fun moment I mentioned, so...wow, props to Netflix, and screw the haters!

Sometimes hating on casting choices is just borderline (?) racist because it makes no sense. The example I have in mind is Starfire being played by a black woman, there was so much bitching before the show started.

I mean technically speaking she should be orange, but otherwise who cares? She's not from Earth!

[Solstice]

@aria said in Good TV:

I would actually appreciate some solid recommendations, @Solstice. There is some great anime out there, I'm sure, but I definitely grew up in the late 90s/early 00s when it was taking the general nerd world by storm, complete with overzealous fans who insisted that all anime was great and fantastic and must-watch and and and purely based on the fact that it was anime, without any regard for whether or not it was actually good. That put me off it for some time (with the exception of Miyazaki, who is beautiful and charming and I adore everything he does) as those sorts of fanbases often do.

I was literally in the same boat. What yanked me out of it was someone I liked dragging me along to a convention, and I stumbled upon shows I independently decided I liked, and they became a good gateway drug. The scene has exploded with much better shows and movies, now. I'll throw something together and post it!

[Coin]

@arkandel said in Good TV:

@wizz said in Good TV:

I haven't read the books, so I didn't realize that was a studio change! Huh. It certainly adds a ton more depth to her character that wouldn't have really been there otherwise, and gives us that fun moment I mentioned, so...wow, props to Netflix, and screw the haters!

Sometimes hating on casting choices is just borderline (?) racist because it makes no sense. The example I have in mind is Starfire being played by a black woman, there was so much bitching before the show started.

I mean technically speaking she should be orange, but otherwise who cares? She's not from Earth!

It crosses the "borderline" limit when you look back and see how much cultural and visual coding went into Starfire over the years in comic books and how much African-American style, fashion, and natural physical traits are present in her character design. Coding is important in storytelling, especially in visual mediums.

[Ganymede]

@goblin said in Good TV:

Just read this, and feel slight excitement.

I read that last word as "excrement," and found it appropriate.

[BetterNow]

Highly recommend Prodigal Son on Fox. About midway through season 2 now, and Michael Sheen (Aziraphale from Good Omens and eleventy-billion other things) chews up the scenery like whoa in the most delightful serial killer manner.

[Warma Sheen]

@arkandel said in Good TV:

Unless it stretches suspension of disbelief... you're already coping very well with people shooting energy beams out of their hands, y'all. Do you really draw the line at them also being Asian?

I know it is rhetorical, but it shouldn't surprise anyone that some people are this shallow. Race/gender identity is a big, complex thing, but the answer is definitely - yes. That's over the line for a lot of people. And by a huge margin. Many people want their heroes to look a certain way otherwise they can't (or don't want to) relate to them.

Spiderman, Captain America, Thor. Just a few other examples people have been up in arms about recently. There are a ton more.

It is a big theme in Falcon and Winter Soldier, which I thought was very good, and something that was begging to be addressed. I'm glad it was not ignored.