Diversity Representation in MU*ing
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I think he was referencing what I was saying about my presumption of men playing lesbian characters like two weeks ago, which I pretty clearly stated I was wrong about when people called me out on it, so I have no idea why it was presented as some firm stance I currently have when I pretty much entirely abandoned it when confronted with alternative perspectives on my previous opinion.
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@HelloProject A lot of men play lesbians. A lot of people with male socialization play lesbians. The lesbian representation on mu*s is not great. That's not a slight toward anyone unless you aim it at anyone in particular, which would be rude and more importantly, fruitless.
Tinuviel about 9 hours ago
I hate you with the power of a thousand Pandoras. -
@Pandora said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
A lot of people with male socialization play lesbians.
...a decent number of people with "male socialization" are lesbians. Unless you're using that phrase in a different way than most people do (i.e. a TERFy "not real women" way).
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@Rinel I'm not the thought police; I don't care what people call themselves.
Tinuviel about 9 hours ago
I hate you with the power of a thousand Pandoras. -
Unrelated to whatever this conversation even is, shout-out to the player on Arx who pointed out a part of Nimue's write-up that was one of those "crystal clear in my head, not very clear in writing" things and risked looking shitty as a result. That feedback was appreciated enough for me to shout it out here.
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@Pandora said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
@Rinel I'm not the thought police; I don't care what people call themselves.
...right.
My point is that "male socialized" people playing lesbians isn't necessarily a cause of poor lesbian representation, since lesbians with that alleged quality exist. It's like saying "a lot of redheads play lesbians; lesbian representation isn't great."
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@Rinel I'm going to take a stab at this as I too have played on HavenRPG and I too have uttered the phrase mesbian.
What is a mesbian you ask? It is a man (you can define man how you like) who plays a woman who exclusively has sex with other women with a frequency and widespread selection to verge on fetish-y.
Why is this bad you ask? I would probably say that it's a little creepy / off putting when anyone walks a mile in someone elses shoes explicitly for hawt seches purposes and makes it painfully obvious that is what is going on.
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@Jeshin said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
I would probably say that it's a little creepy / off putting when anyone walks a mile in someone elses shoes explicitly for hawt seches purposes and makes it painfully obvious that is what is going on.
I don't understand, are you suggesting lesbians in particular/women in general aren't defined by fuckability? Why, the only thing that prevents that from being heresy is that it's too nonsensical to even consider!
firmly affixes monocle in place
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@Rinel said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
My point is that "male socialized" people playing lesbians isn't necessarily a cause of poor lesbian representation, since lesbians with that alleged quality exist. It's like saying "a lot of redheads play lesbians; lesbian representation isn't great."
I'm not going to lie and start saying that men playing lesbians hasn't been terrible for lesbian representation because it's now not PC to say something that's been true forever and will continue to be true forever. If it doesn't apply to you/someone you know/someone you've heard of, that's great and I'm not debating it.
Tinuviel about 9 hours ago
I hate you with the power of a thousand Pandoras. -
@Pandora said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
@Rinel said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
My point is that "male socialized" people playing lesbians isn't necessarily a cause of poor lesbian representation, since lesbians with that alleged quality exist. It's like saying "a lot of redheads play lesbians; lesbian representation isn't great."
I'm not going to lie and start saying that men playing lesbians hasn't been terrible for lesbian representation because it's now not PC to say something that's been true forever and will continue to be true forever. If it doesn't apply to you/someone you know/someone you've heard of, that's great and I'm not debating it.
I think Rinel's point was more that some people raised with male socialization are actually lesbians themselves (because they are trans women).
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@Pandora said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
@Rinel said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
My point is that "male socialized" people playing lesbians isn't necessarily a cause of poor lesbian representation, since lesbians with that alleged quality exist. It's like saying "a lot of redheads play lesbians; lesbian representation isn't great."
I'm not going to lie and start saying that men playing lesbians hasn't been terrible for lesbian representation because it's now not PC to say something that's been true forever and will continue to be true forever. If it doesn't apply to you/someone you know/someone you've heard of, that's great and I'm not debating it.
- not a man
- the phrase "male socialization" is frequently used by TERFs to claim that trans women aren't women because we presented as male growing up
- trans women are women
- some trans women are lesbians
- trans lesbians playing lesbians is not bad for lesbian representation
This isn't about men; it's about you using a phrase in a particular way and continuing to be really shifty about it. The fact that you seem to think "male socialization" makes someone a man is pretty worrying, as is your random protestation about eternal truths no longer being "PC."
ETA: ty @Roz that was it precisely
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@Roz said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
I think Rinel's point was more that some people raised with male socialization are actually lesbians themselves (because they are trans women).
As I said, I don't police what people call themselves. I take Cirno at face-value that Cirno is black; it doesn't mean I think every black character Cirno plays is going to be great for black representation just because they say so.
Tinuviel about 9 hours ago
I hate you with the power of a thousand Pandoras. -
@Pandora said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
@Roz said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
I think Rinel's point was more that some people raised with male socialization are actually lesbians themselves (because they are trans women).
As I said, I don't police what people call themselves. I take Cirno at face-value that Cirno is black; it doesn't mean I think every black character Cirno plays is going to be great for black representation just because they say so.
See, this is the shifty attitude I'm talking about. I'm legitimately trying to give you the benefit of the doubt because I prefer to think people aren't raging bigots, but what you're writing over and over just sounds like transphobia without a spine.
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@Rinel said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
See, this is the shifty attitude I'm talking about. I'm legitimately trying to give you the benefit of the doubt because I prefer to think people aren't raging bigot, but what you're writing over and over just sounds like transphobia without a spine.
I don't hate or fear anyone for having gender dysphoria.
Tinuviel about 9 hours ago
I hate you with the power of a thousand Pandoras. -
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@Pandora said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
@Rinel said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
See, this is the shifty attitude I'm talking about. I'm legitimately trying to give you the benefit of the doubt because I prefer to think people aren't raging bigot, but what you're writing over and over just sounds like transphobia without a spine.
I don't hate or fear anyone for having gender dysphoria.
There are two responses that are warring in my head right now.
The first is, "You know, the fact that a lesbian could actually type this sentence without being so embarrassed she promptly cancelled her internet subscription is really something."
The second is "shut the fuck up, TERF."
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Incidentally, trans women are indeed women.
And also.
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@Rinel Well now that you've gotten them out, I hope there is peace in your head.
Tinuviel about 9 hours ago
I hate you with the power of a thousand Pandoras. -
@Pandora said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
@Rinel Well now that you've gotten them out, I hope there is peace in your head.
honestly I'm pretty pissed off that you're such a shitheel
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@Rinel said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
honestly I'm pretty pissed off that you're such a shitheel
My feelings are hurt by all this name-calling outside of the Hogpit.
