Diversity Representation in MU*ing
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Yeah, I think it's mostly skin color as @Coin says. I can't say I translate 'Spanish' (from Spain) as POC as part of my American menetal construct of race, any more than I would a French person or Italian. But then again I grew up in the 80s and not on twitter, where there's an effort to make everyone POC, which, as I said before, seems very dubious because it both seems to continue to mark Anglo-Saxons as special and also erases the very different issues different groups have. The experiences of Blacks (or Native Americans) in the US are not comparable to every other vaguely darker than lily-white group. Other POCs sometimes get upset to hear that, but... oh well?
But color and other visible evidence of race is always the big factor. My neighborhood saw the Dominican population organize to (sometimes violently) defend businesses from looting: some folks quickly called this racist (against blacks). But among the Caribbean-Hispanic population (which is a mix of Spanish, African, and Native ie. Taino ancestry), Dominicans are one of the darkest skinned groups and often treated poorly by other related groups (and, edit for emphasis, by cops). They felt they were being left out of the protests, despite having the same kind of tension with police (even years before the protests, you'd hear 'Hands up!' shouted by people whenever a police car drove by the street here).
Even with the religious-oriented hate, it tends to follow those visible lines. Muslim-owned businesses are quite common in several places I've lived, but even at the height of 9/11 furor, who got targeted and who didn't was very much racial: brown Pakistanis moreso than basically white looking, well-assimilated Arabs. Jews too: I don't look it, and so I'm a generic white American if you don't see my last name on a document. But if you're more visibly Semitic, people are way more likely to comment on the heritage (even in the weird fetish-y 'friendly' way 'nice' Christians often do, which I've definitely seen happen to friends).
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It's a combination of skin tone, ethnicity, culture/subculture, etc. Every piece of the puzzle further categorizes you, making it easier to stereotype.
I'm white, but the moment I start throwing around the y'alls, I'm a Southerner - a bit lazy, a bit stupid, polite in a folksy Southern way (sweet tea and "bless your heart"s for everyone!), incredibly racist, sleep on the floor while my prized gun collection gets the bed, and love Nascar, Dolly Parton, and Jesus in that order. If I point out I live in Kentucky, replace Nascar with horse racing and add drunk on bourbon, walks around barefoot, and probably fucked his cousin in high school to the list. The lazy and the drunk on bourbon are the only accurate ones.
Speaking of which, I love this comedy sketch about Southerners and Hipsters: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbRVr0_ak48
Anyways, this is true for all races. If a black man has dreads, a billed hat turned sideways, pants that are hanging down below their waist, a pair of Air Jordans, a gold grill, and a bunch of bling, they're going to get pegged as something different than a black man who has a short hair, nice but not gaudy glasses, suit and tie with matching hat, polished black dress shoes, and the only bling being a rolex watch on the wrist.
Ceterum autem censeo Carthaginem esse delendam
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@Ominous While I understand the horse racing bit... it's very odd here. Being interested in horse races for Australians, at least, is a rather high class interest.
He/Him
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What they said, but in academic terms.
"Resistance to equitable funding for schools has also been supported by several belief systems about the causes of poverty. One of these, the ideology of individualism, holds that success and failure result mainly from individual effort rather than social circumstance. The people of the United States are known around the world for their strong belief in the power of personal effort, but this can lead to associated beliefs that blame impoverished persons for their lack of success in life (see Kluegel & Smith, 1986).
A second belief, essentialism, has it that less-privileged groups (such as African Americans, Hispanics, Native Americans, or women) inherit genetic characteristics that account for whatever lack of successes they have experienced. This thesis has appeared repeatedly, in Europe as well as the United States, for more than a century. Advocates such as Arthur Jensen (1972) or Richard Herrnstein and Charles Murray (1994) still promote this theory today. When applied to the poor, essentialism asserts that poverty results from intractable genetic flaws.
Another belief system, the culture of poverty thesis, argues that minority persons fail because of inappropriate traditions in the subcultures of their homes, communities, or ethnic groups (see Moynihan, 1969). When applied to the poor, such beliefs suggest that persons in impoverished communities fail because they possess only “limited linguistic codes” or are handicapped by lack of appropriate “cultural or social capital.”"
I went on a rant elsewhere not long ago about absolute inequity of education funding in our country and how it has its some roots in racism.
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@Tinuviel said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
@Ominous While I understand the horse racing bit... it's very odd here. Being interested in horse races for Australians, at least, is a rather high class interest.
It used to be here. Now it only is during the Kentucky Derby when people want to host a themed party.
Saying the quiet parts out loud since 1996.
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@Auspice said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
@Tinuviel said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
@Ominous While I understand the horse racing bit... it's very odd here. Being interested in horse races for Australians, at least, is a rather high class interest.
It used to be here. Now it only is during the Kentucky Derby when people want to host a themed party.
Like sure, we've got those grumpy old men with a worn newspaper betting the house on the ponies, but you only ever hear of horse races during Race Day where people wear exceptionally small hats...
He/Him
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@Tinuviel said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
@Auspice said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
@Tinuviel said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
@Ominous While I understand the horse racing bit... it's very odd here. Being interested in horse races for Australians, at least, is a rather high class interest.
It used to be here. Now it only is during the Kentucky Derby when people want to host a themed party.
Like sure, we've got those grumpy old men with a worn newspaper betting the house on the ponies, but you only ever hear of horse races during Race Day where people wear exceptionally small hats...
Because it's America, the hats are very big during the Kentucky Derby. Which is really, IMO, the only reason anyone cares anymore. Excuse to wear ridiculous hats.
Saying the quiet parts out loud since 1996.
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@Tinuviel said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
@Ominous While I understand the horse racing bit... it's very odd here. Being interested in horse races for Australians, at least, is a rather high class interest.
The Kentucky stereotype sums up the big societal divide in white Southern culture, which is based around land-holding aristocracy. Horse racing is the purview of the wealthy plantation owner. When you drive around the Lexington area, you will come across massive horse farms with giant antebellum or modern mansions surrounded by manicured grounds that were once tended to by enslaved black people and poor Irish immigrants paid meager wages.
Walking around barefoot and fucking your cousin in high school comes from the other side of the societal divide. Drive about 20-30 miles east or south of Lexington and you're looking at: https://youtu.be/pDlZLsJJkVA?t=11
Ceterum autem censeo Carthaginem esse delendam
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@Auspice said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
Because it's America, the hats are very big during the Kentucky Derby. Which is really, IMO, the only reason anyone cares anymore. Excuse to wear ridiculous hats.
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@silverfox said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
What they said, but in academic terms.
I'm not mocking you for this, I'm just saying it always gets a smile out of me when people use facts to rebut irrational beliefs that could only be held by people who deny facts. It's kind of a tragic irony thing.
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@silverfox said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
"Resistance to equitable funding for schools has also been supported by several belief systems about the causes of poverty. One of these, the ideology of individualism, holds that success and failure result mainly from individual effort rather than social circumstance. The people of the United States are known around the world for their strong belief in the power of personal effort, but this can lead to associated beliefs that blame impoverished persons for their lack of success in life (see Kluegel & Smith, 1986).
Which is a hold-over from our Puritan roots and their Calvinist beliefs that God rewards the good with success and punishes the immoral with failure. We've just replaced God with the economy and good and immoral with hard-working and lazy.
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@Ominous said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
@Tinuviel said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
@Ominous While I understand the horse racing bit... it's very odd here. Being interested in horse races for Australians, at least, is a rather high class interest.
The Kentucky stereotype sums up the big societal divide in white Southern culture, which is based around land-holding aristocracy. Horse racing is the purview of the wealthy plantation owner. When you drive around the Lexington area, you will come across massive horse farms with giant antebellum or modern mansions surrounded by manicured grounds that were once tended to by enslaved black people and poor Irish immigrants paid meager wages.
Walking around barefoot and fucking your cousin in high school comes from the other side of the societal divide. Drive about 20-30 miles east or south of Lexington and you're looking at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDlZLsJJkVA
One of my oldest friends lives in Nashville now, but is from the Lexington area and... yeah. Legit.
I also lived in NKY for a bit and yes, legit. It was a THING to make it very clear you were in NORTHERN KY (or even just to say Cincinnati if you lived right on the river).Saying the quiet parts out loud since 1996.
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@Ominous said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
It is so wrong to look that angry while wearing that hat.
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Wait, what?
I wasn't rebutting you. I was stating the academic terms that people use for those beliefs which underpin much of the decision making processes that we as citizens of the United States of America don't think about but that we very much hold to until called on our bias.
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@Auspice said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
One of my oldest friends lives in Nashville now, but is from the Lexington area and... yeah. Legit.
I also lived in NKY for a bit and yes, legit. It was a THING to make it very clear you were in NORTHERN KY (or even just to say Cincinnati if you lived right on the river).Cincinnatian originally, the most Southern Northern city. Now from Louisville, the most Northern Southern city.
Ceterum autem censeo Carthaginem esse delendam
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“We don’t know what Cincinnatians are trying to be, but Nick Lachey hails from there.”
— Daytonian.
“It is better to live doing the things that you like. It is foolish to live within this dream of a world seeing unpleasantness and doing only things that you do not like.” -- Yamamoto Tsunetomo.
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The only good thing about Dayton is it's the closest Tim Hortons to Cincinnati.
(Or at least it was when I lived in OH.)Saying the quiet parts out loud since 1996.
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@Ganymede said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
“We don’t know what Cincinnatians are trying to be, but Nick Lachey hails from there.”
— Daytonian.
But so does Jerry Springer. (And my sister in law who once dated him.)
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@GreenFlashlight I mean, maybe she's mad that somehow she found a hat and a dress that coordinated perfectly and fucked it all up with a horribly clashing necklace? Because finding something that so perfectly matches that hat or that dress is no small feat, the colors are not common combos by a mile.
Also, that hat is more than most skirts. I mean. Seconding 'how can you even be grumpy in that hat, how?!'
Unless it's a 'lost a bet' hat. I would not totally discount that as a possibility. Or 'omfg that evil cow over there has an even larger hat and it just put someone's eye out, now I seeeeeethe with envy and rage'.
...or someone else showed up in the same hat. "And that's when I shot her, your honor."
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@surreality said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
@GreenFlashlight I mean, maybe she's mad that somehow she found a hat and a dress that coordinated perfectly and fucked it all up with a horribly clashing necklace? Because finding something that so perfectly matches that hat or that dress is no small feat, the colors are not common combos by a mile.
Also, that hat is more than most skirts. I mean. Seconding 'how can you even be grumpy in that hat, how?!'
Unless it's a 'lost a bet' hat. I would not totally discount that as a possibility. Or 'omfg that evil cow over there has an even larger hat and it just put someone's eye out, now I seeeeeethe with envy and rage'.
...or someone else showed up in the same hat. "And that's when I shot her, your honor."
Or she has money riding on Katniss losing the Hunger Games.
