The Desired Experience
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I mean, for those who don't RP as a full time job and/or aren't available at prime time, I don't see what's wrong with both of those statements. People want to spend their time in a way that is most fulfilling.
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@Juniper Yes. People want to spend their time in a way that is most fulfilling.
However, the more people behave as Derp in statement two, the less possible it is for statement one to be true. Unless only the four or five people Derp plays with are fun.
"... you'll find the story doesn’t end how you think, and the most important characters aren’t who you expect.” - Penny 40 to Derek, The Magicians S04E07 ‘The Side Effect’
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That would be true if Derp was personally the only RPer available to interact with hypothetical ungrouped characters, and we know that isn't true. If I had 2-4 hours a week available for RP I couldn't imagine spending that time ignoring my friends so I can go hound noobs who may or may not be bearable RP partners. This is a hobby, not charity.
In reality we see most people in the game forming their own pods, or McLonely gets scooped up by that one chick who does live in the game 24/7.
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@juniper said in The Desired Experience:
If I had 2-4 hours a week available for RP I couldn't imagine spending that time ignoring my friends so I can go hound noobs who may or may not be bearable RP partners.
Why is it only these two extremes, and not something in the middle, though? It's not an either-or proposition.
And why do you and @Derp think that "go be helpful and nice" is some arrogant edict saying "and that means you have to sacrifice your happiness to put up with bullshit"?
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@juniper said in The Desired Experience:
This is a hobby, not charity.
Yeah, I really don't get this expectation that you should even try to play with everybody. Just no. It's a game. It's meant to be fun. If you're doing something that is torturous for you, then you're doing it wrong.
Sure, it's nice to reach out and take chances on people, especially new folks. It takes a certain amount of critical mass of players and RP to keep a game open, so one can argue it's in your own best interests to do so at least occasionally. But never in any way would I expect people to treat it as an obligation.
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@faraday said in The Desired Experience:
Yeah, I really don't get this expectation that you should even try to play with everybody.
I honestly don't get where people are getting that from. Either as an expectation, or that I've said you have to play with everyone.
He/Him
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@tinuviel said in The Desired Experience:
I honestly don't get where people are getting that from. Either as an expectation, or that I've said you have to play with everyone.
I mean, you said...
Everyone is responsible for everyone else's fun, to a point. If a player mentions that they're not having much fun, then do your best to accommodate them in your play
Maybe that's not exactly what you meant? But that certainly states that I am somehow responsible for Jane having fun on the game to some extent, and I'm emphatically disagreeing with that point. Jane is responsible for her own fun. I am not obliged to "do my best" to accommodate Jane in my play, because it's a game. If all I want to do is log on and play with Bob--if that's all that I have the time and energy to do, or if that's all that's fun for me? That's enough.
Is it nice to help Jane have fun? Sure. Is it good for the game when people do it? Sure. But that's a very different argument than saying I'm "responsible" for it.
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@faraday said in The Desired Experience:
Is it nice to help Jane have fun? Sure. Is it good for the game when people do it? Sure. But that's a very different argument than saying I'm "responsible" for it.
That's how I read it too.
I think, Tinuviel, that when you said "responsible for everyone else's fun" you meant "don't shit on other people who are trying to have fun." I took it to mean that, so both you and Derp's positions reconciled. That's where I fit.
I don't have much time. I like to play with friends. I'll try to accommodate where I can. Ultimately, as long as I'm not shitting on other people's fun, I think I'm okay.
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What @tinuviel said.
Do I expect anybody to RP with everybody? No.
Do I think anybody has an obligation to play with everybody? No.
Do I expect you to ignore your friends to RP with rando when your time is limited? No.
Do I think RPing exclusively with four other people is cool? No. I think it's equivalent to showing up at the pot luck with four sandwiches to hand to your friends. If it's a sandboxy game, okay, its maybe more like a park where people are meant to do that, but probably you're using plates and napkins and drinking from the host's margarita pitcher.
Do I think this should not be allowed? I'd say it's up to the host, seeing as some games are built as venues for it, and on large games where it's not what many people do it's an invisible non-issue.
@faraday said in The Desired Experience:
But that's a very different argument than saying I'm "responsible" for it.
Probably a differing value of 'responsible'. "It's your job," responsible? No. "Having a measure of control" responsible, yes. People's fun does, in fact, depend on others looping them in. Not having the time, energy, or desire to do that is legitimate, but 'tis still true.
"... you'll find the story doesn’t end how you think, and the most important characters aren’t who you expect.” - Penny 40 to Derek, The Magicians S04E07 ‘The Side Effect’
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Play with whoever you like. Avoid whoever you don't like.
Why would you want to play with someone who is only there out of some sense of obligation? I would hope people play with me 'cause it's fun, and not 'cause it looks bad otherwise.
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@il-volpe He said he branches out, and he does.
As it happens, @Derp was the one who approached me back when we met, not the other way around, even though of the two of us I'm typically the more gregarious one getting out there with a larger number of people.
He very clearly had a process, one that included reading some of my logs and asking other people he trusted about their experiences with me, but he did reach out. Characterizing it as if he just never ever ever meets anyone new is a misrepresentation.
Economy of energy and time is definitely a thing.
He/Him
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@devrex I know, more or less, re: Derp in particular.
I'm more objecting to the "If you're fun, people will RP with you" line from people who seldom have the time, energy and/or inclination to find out if somebody's fun.
And heck, now I'm feeling the "OMG maybe I shouldn't play unless I know I am at the top of my game" feels you described earlier, since if getting a chance is hard a second one is not a reasonable hope.
"... you'll find the story doesn’t end how you think, and the most important characters aren’t who you expect.” - Penny 40 to Derek, The Magicians S04E07 ‘The Side Effect’
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@il-volpe I mean...the statement is just basic truth regardless of who it comes from. That there are variations in skill level when it comes to evoking a character, setting up situations that are compelling, creating a vibe, etc...that's also just basic truth. That some have more "coin of the realm" (ideas) either due to base talent or experience or the willingness to cultivate...also just basic truth. Or OOC self-management skills in re: coming across as someone who is not likely to become a headache later by blowing up into some big emotional OOC mess because you forgot to pose whether or not you liked the fruitcake they clearly posed putting on the table or because Any Number of Other Reasons Big Emotional Scenes of Some Uncomfortable Variety take place.
None of this is a commentary on you btw, these are very generalized observations.
The good news is, there's always room to learn, grow, to learn new techniques, to improve OOC emotional regulation or negotiation skills...or to find people who are on your wavelength. Everyone has somewhere they can grow. I sure as hell have multiple places I could stand to grow.
And the flip side of "wow I have an anxiety problem" is "wow a staggering number of people in this hobby share the anxiety..." which is also good news, because it also means that there are others just waiting to be met, too. Not all of us can get along, or like each other, or get each other, but there are usually oh, probably...four or so floating around, at least, who can get each of us.
So I mean you know, IDK about top of your game, so much as not getting discouraged, staying chill, looking for new ways to become effective at generating what you want out of the experience and both finding your folks and staying open to finding your folks without falling into the uh...MUSHer's Swamp of Sadness, so to speak. You'll never feel as wanted or as sure of yourself as you or anyone probably wants to feel...but you can probs focus on providing entertainment so that you in turn are entertained, and that is a more reliable metric than whether or not the brain weasels are fed.
He/Him
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@devrex I hear ya re: the detail, but naw. It's not a basic truth. The basic truth is "If you aren't fun, people won't play with you," which doesn't imply that a bunch of other shit like time and energy and character concepts and platforms-for-interaction don't play a big role, you just either suck or you're fun.
I have totally had times when I felt wanted on a game or two and quite sure of myself in that people wanted to play with me about as often as I wanted to play and wouldn't ghost me 'cause an IC argument turned boring or something, and freely admitted to having fun with me.
"... you'll find the story doesn’t end how you think, and the most important characters aren’t who you expect.” - Penny 40 to Derek, The Magicians S04E07 ‘The Side Effect’
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@il-volpe If you aren't (fun/a good fit for the game/on a character that matches your desired RP experience the way you hope it does) then (time/energy/theme mismatches/anxiety/circumstance/plot issues) doesn't help.
It's a pair of sliders and the way each of those sliders are set produces some level of difficulty between Casual Mode (getting RP is as simple as reaching out your hand) to Nightmare Mode (everyone goin' "oh, look at the time").
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@faraday said in The Desired Experience:
Maybe that's not exactly what you meant?
It definitely isn't.
I meant it in the context of people in their group. Their WoD sphere, or their military unit or whatever. Tabletop style. If I meant it to say "play with everyone" I'd say "play with everyone." I further mentioned a small group as an example in a subsequent post.
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@il-volpe said in The Desired Experience:
Do I think RPing exclusively with four other people is cool? No. I think it's equivalent to showing up at the pot luck with four sandwiches to hand to your friends. If it's a sandboxy game, okay, its maybe more like a park where people are meant to do that, but probably you're using plates and napkins and drinking from the host's margarita pitcher.
Ooooh, I like this analogy.
Ceterum autem censeo Carthaginem esse delendam
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I am in agreement with a lot of people in this thread but at the same time I'm chuckling and cringing in European. The idea that I can restrict my playing to my close circle and not bother with meeting new people? From timezone stupid, you pounce on everyone in the hope that they're a keeper. You kiss a lot of frogs to find some princes.
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I don’t because it presumes I can afford more than four sandwiches.
If that’s all I got? That’s all I got. If you want to exclude me from the pot luck, so be it, but if there are others hauling in the goods, what’s the problem?
“It is better to live doing the things that you like. It is foolish to live within this dream of a world seeing unpleasantness and doing only things that you do not like.” -- Yamamoto Tsunetomo.
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@ominous said in The Desired Experience:
@il-volpe said in The Desired Experience:
Do I think RPing exclusively with four other people is cool? No. I think it's equivalent to showing up at the pot luck with four sandwiches to hand to your friends. If it's a sandboxy game, okay, its maybe more like a park where people are meant to do that, but probably you're using plates and napkins and drinking from the host's margarita pitcher.
Ooooh, I like this analogy.
See, whereas I look at it more that you're invited to a party and you choose to just hang out with a couple of people you already know. Nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with mingling with new people either, but it's a personal choice.
If I were invited to a party where the host was like: "Oh and I expect you to go out of your way to ensure that other random strangers at this party have fun" I would look at them like they're from Mars while I politely declined their invitation.
@ganymede said in The Desired Experience:
Ultimately, as long as I'm not shitting on other people's fun, I think I'm okay.
That's how I look at it.
If staff feels its important to encourage RP circles to interact with each other, or to get new players involved in things, they have the tools at their disposal to do so. Plot hooks, incentives, RP through their own alts. Just as the host of our hypothetical party might introduce a lonely friend to some other like-minded people, or orchestrate some group activities, or just sit down and talk to them personally.
