RL Anger
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Ok, well, first of all you are wildly mischaracterizing what I put in that post, which is unsurprising, but alright. I said that you were justified in being suspicious, but that not everything is a sinister plot, and that you shouldn't rush to judgment about motive.
Secondly, what does saying you shouldn't rush to judgment about motives have to do with taking responsible steps to protect yourself? I pointed out, several times, that you were justified in being suspicious.
NOTE: I am -not- calling Mietze a liar, or saying she is wrong -- just that it is only one side of the story, there, and there exists a -possibility- that the intentions are more innocent than they may appear. I fully understand her hesitation in this matter.
So, as noted, while Mietze is perfectly justified in her suspicion and actions, there is potentially another side of the story, here. One in which the man is not The Devil. And I was merely trying to make the point that, sometimes, people can show up and want to get in touch with no moustache-twirling involved.
I said I agreed with your suspicion, and your desire to take actions to protect yourself. In fact, I am pretty sure that I was specifically responding to KQ there, and not you, because KQ's take was All Men Are Evil or something to that effect.
So by all means, cast me as the villain here if it makes you feel better, but it doesn't discount my original point that asking women to take steps to protect themselves is not a bad thing.
Racism isn't Tinkerbell. It doesn't need you to believe in it for it to exist.
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that asking women to take steps to protect themselves is not a bad thing
It is when it's literally all they hear every single time this sort of thing happens.
He/Him
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Ok, well, first of all you are wildly mischaracterizing what I put in that post, which is unsurprising, but alright.
I just reread the whole thing as a refresher of all of that and no, she really isn't. Your posts in that conversational thread were seriously messed up, especially because you really didn't -- and still don't -- understand why.
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Yes, because the alternative, not asking women to take steps to protect themselves and just seeing how the dice fall, is much more preferable.
Jesus fucking christ, are we really having this conversation?
Racism isn't Tinkerbell. It doesn't need you to believe in it for it to exist.
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Jesus fucking christ, are we really having this conversation?
Yes, because you're too mind-numbingly stupid to realise that women really don't need reminding about how they need to look after themselves. It's drilled into them from the time they can walk.
If I get shot, nobody sensible is going to be giving me helpful tips like "don't go out without a bullet-proof vest."
The predatory and criminal behaviour is the only matter of concern. Literally the only one.
He/Him
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especially because you really didn't -- and still don't -- understand why.
No, I don't understand why this is a bad thing, and I frankly don't believe it is a bad thing, for the reason mentioned in the post above.
IT IS NOT A BAD THING TO ASK PEOPLE TO TAKE STEPS TO PROTECT THEMSELVES FROM DANGEROUS SITUATIONS, FULL STOP.
And if you can't figure out WHY I am baffled that we would even need to explain that in 2018, then I have no idea how to proceed with this conversation.
Racism isn't Tinkerbell. It doesn't need you to believe in it for it to exist.
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IT IS NOT A BAD THING TO ASK PEOPLE TO TAKE STEPS TO PROTECT THEMSELVES FROM DANGEROUS SITUATIONS, FULL STOP.
IT IS WHEN LITERALLY ANY SITUATION COULD LEAD TO BEING RAPED IF YOU ARE A WOMAN AND A MAN IS STRONGER THAN YOU ARE.
He/Him
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IT IS NOT A BAD THING TO ASK PEOPLE TO TAKE STEPS TO PROTECT THEMSELVES FROM DANGEROUS SITUATIONS, FULL STOP.
IT IS WHEN LITERALLY ANY SITUATION COULD LEAD TO BEING RAPED IF YOU ARE A WOMAN AND A MAN IS STRONGER THAN YOU ARE.
And often, steps to protect can make them angry and make it more violent if it's going to go bad.
This is very much a damned if you do, damned if you don't type situation and that is not the fault of women.
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...I'm out. I cannot even. That is a level of absurdity that ... just... no.
Racism isn't Tinkerbell. It doesn't need you to believe in it for it to exist.
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@derp It's absolutely not absurd. It's the truth.
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This victim blaming has me frothing at the mouth. A woman should be able to dance naked drunk as a skunk down the street, shouting that she is a Godess of love, and NO MAN SHOULD SAY SHIT, TOUCH HER, COMMENT OR DO ANYTHING TO HER WHAT SO FUCKING EVER!
Apart from getting arrested for disturbing the peace, or whatever you would get arrested for doing that, maybe.
But that there are people STILL that go 'Oh, but she had it coming when she did that' is so fucking awful.. Well, shit. Having friends that have been stalked, assaulted, sexually harassed - simply doing ordinary day to day things - what the fuck? And as mentioned above, ANYONE should be able to go out, have a good time, get drunk with friends - and expect to be safe. It is not the victim that needs to be told anything, it is the attacker. Always.
We banned a customer at work (I work for a delivery company) - we no longer deliver ANY goods to this guy. I had the satisfaction of telling him this over phone cause he was groping, trying to kiss and sexually harassed one of our drivers (while constantly saying 'This isn't MeTOO, don't worry!'I told him exactly why - the woman in question chose NOT to make a police report, and that is up to her (she is tough and hasn't been that affected it appears, but still, we're not sending ANYONE to that guy again.) Told him to come pick up his fucking parcel himself and exactly what I thought about him and his actions.
Unfortunately I didn't get to see his face, a colleague gave him his parcel. Probably just as well. Fuck that guy and every other asshole like him.
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Let's also not forget that this woman just had what is almost assuredly the most awful night of her life, is likely still reeling from the trauma (and who knows what sort of long-term effects there might be), is having her story used in racist ways even her family is calling bullshit on, has had her consent and bodily autonomy and life ripped away from her by eight (not seven, eight) extremely cruel men -
And the response to that is "Guess you shouldn't have done drugs!"?!?!
Get. Fucking. Real.
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@derp You aren't a villian. You were, however pretty fucking callous and obtuse. You DID tell me in that thread to "adult more" since I chose that profession. You DID cast doubt on me, all the while parroting the "oh well of course it's okay to be suspicious" when really if you /read that entire exchange/ it was fucking lip service at best.
What the hell do you think happens when a woman needs to report something even worse, like an actual sexual assault? THE SAME THING. Unless it's a stranger rape. Are you SURE you weren't drunk? Are you SURE you didn't lead him on? WHAT where YOU THINKING, walking around alone? Did you scream so he knew you didn't want it?
Ask any of us who have had to report to authorites (police or otherwise) a sexual assault. Why, they say the same asshole shit you have said! Did you take the (the listeners) responsibility to protect yourself? You sure you wanna ruin a good guy who might have a different persective than yours? We gotta be fair!
So yeah, that's why people react very strongly to that kind of "article". You're not stupid.
But I do think there are lots of (mostly men) people who cannot handle women (or men) who are being harassed stepping up (they worry SO MUCH about OMG what about the other guy! What if he didn't MEAN to be that way? What if he just wanted to look up an old "friend"? What if...? What if....?) and many those people cannot rape or sexual assault without some form of victim blaming. This is not the exclusive domain of men--some of the most disgusting examples of this in my personal life have been women. Why? I don't know. Giving them a feeling of power and safety, that if only people "took responsibility for protecting themselves" this shit wouldn't happen (I guess it only happens to people who don't take responsibility? Women need to be educated that they can be raped and stalked and harassed with impunity sometimes? We know.)
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If I get shot, nobody sensible is going to be giving me helpful tips like "don't go out without a bullet-proof vest."
The predatory and criminal behaviour is the only matter of concern. Literally the only one.
Unless you're in the US. Then you are told "well, if you'd only had a concealed carry weapon, you could have gotten him/her first! That's what happens when the lawmakers take away all of your guns! You should take responsibility for your own safety! If I had been there I would have head-shotted him like the sniper I see myself being in my fantasies, even though I have no training and there's no competency requirements for this loaded handgun I have stuffed down my pants."
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Folks, the conversation is more political than anything at this point. Can we please take it to the politics forum instead?
Also I advise everyone involved to keep in mind even this thread isn't in the Hog Pit. Please do not make it personal.
- He who takes offense when not intended is a fool. He who takes offense when intended is a greater fool.
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@arkandel I do understand the general sentiment of "this isn't the Hog Pit" and can respect it, but I do feel a little uncomfortable that, like -- this is actually a number of posters talking about stuff that's personal, not political.
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@roz It's just that some parts of this latest conversation ("do I need to explain why a woman..." "yes, you do", etc) strike me as more political rather than personal.
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@arkandel What sounds political to you is the lived experience for a number of women here.
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Frankly the idea of a RL Anger thread in the "Constructive" forum has always baffled me a bit. How do you rage constructively? Moving it to the hog pit might alleviate a number of concerns.
