Non-WoD Horror Game (Buffy, Cthulhu, Etc)
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I think a lot of people forget that some of the best horror isn't suffering massive physical trauma before pulling some unexpected win over on the Big Bad. Its psychological. Its whatever truly terrifies you coming to life right in front of you. Speaking your deepest, darkest fears out loud. Showing you what you're afraid of. And that, is next to impossible to replicate, since very few people will list such things as actual fears for a character. Its part of why Freddy Krueger (the idea, not the character) made him SUCH a great horror villain. He got to people when they were the most vulnerable, took whatever they were most afraid of, whatever caused them the most guilt or angst, and used it against them. Jason and Michael were unstoppable killers, but they were a purely physical threat.
Of course, this is all personal conjecture and YMMV definitely applies.
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The most horrifying thing I have seen on a MU* was Sithen/Silverblue. It was just this headtilt, and vague kind of smile posed so well that you could almost hear his sanity snap. Nothing gory or overtly horrible just...yeah. Very well done.
But yeah hard to do, and everyone has a different threshold.
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Let me put this another way. If elf = fantasy, then zombie = horror. Let's slay some vamps into dust and head on down to the coffee shop already.
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@Usekh said:
The most horrifying thing I have seen on a MU* was Sithen/Silverblue. It was just this headtilt, and vague kind of smile posed so well that you could almost hear his sanity snap. Nothing gory or overtly horrible just...yeah. Very well done.
I have to second this. Completely agreed.
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I think when I attributed part of the blame for not being able to inflict horror on mechanics I misspoke; that would imply the system was ever meant to convey or generate it. But that's not the case, not even for those which advertise themselves as "games of personal horror" - they are not. The moment names and abilities are assigned to things the veil of mystery is gone because there's a framework for what it is or could be.
Is something from beyond the grave stirring in your kitchen? Well, man, there's a best case and a worst case scenario here; you either have what it takes to stop it ("pft, I got Death 3") or you don't and you'll suffer whatever mechanical fate is in store (death, insanity). It's cut and dried, since almost every system that I've ever seen including Cthulhu variants is designed with adventuring in mind; you got your numbers and your opposition has its numbers. There's an encounter and a resolution.
My idea of horror (which of course each player has a different one) is based on the unknown, the unthinkable. There's no resolution, there can't be one because what's happening is so unfathomable. There's no opposition because the things that are happening are phenomena, manifestations, not monsters with motives and goals; even if you manage to find that rite which silences the indian graveyard under your house you're not safe because you don't know what just happened, or why it started or ended. You don't know if the wards you're hanging outside your window do anything. All you know is you're this tiny fleshbag who witnessed something massively bigger than themselves and you're scared shitless because of it.
But how to channel this into a plot... I don't know how. It doesn't help that PCs tend to be terribly competent on their own ("I roll int+occult, can I tell what those signs on the ceiling mean?") or that they can call for backup and get someone who believes them. PCs never need stand alone. They never have to wonder if they aren't losing it because when they all know a whole lot of supernatural stuff already exists why doubt this latest insanity also does? Sure man, I've seen ghosts, I've fought zombies but what the hell are you saying, spirits? Those don't exist, are you nuts?
But I'd love to. I'd love to run an actually scary story.
- He who takes offense when not intended is a fool. He who takes offense when intended is a greater fool.
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@Arkandel, unfortunately, that sort of thing on a MU is best found in stat-less games, wherein you run into the other problem: they're all consent-based.
That said, I am perfectly okay with setting an Insane Condition on a PC and then running the fuck out of them going crazy with no one else seeing what they're seeing. <.< It depends on the player trusting me enough to do something they don't have back info on, though. But you know. That's a different problem.
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My biggest problem with playing crazy is people get way to emotionally invested in their char.
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@icanbeyourmuse said:
My biggest problem
with playing crazyis people get way to emotionally invested in their char.FTFY.
- He who takes offense when not intended is a fool. He who takes offense when intended is a greater fool.
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@Arkandel Hahaha. In this case I was meaning to their char but that too!
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@Arkandel said:
I think when I attributed part of the blame for not being able to inflict horror on mechanics I misspoke; that would imply the system was ever meant to convey or generate it. But that's not the case, not even for those which advertise themselves as "games of personal horror" - they are not.
And so I give you: MonsterHearts. Perfect is also pretty horrific in its mechanics. I've run into quite a few over time, but all of these games have one thing in common that makes it different from Storyteller et al.: They don't try to cover everything. The systems limit you in what you can do.
Horror is about goals and themes. D&D is about a setting. It's "standard fantasy", which goes far as to how generic it can be. WoD is, dare I say it (yes, I dare), "generic horror". Buffy is as well. Horror has been taken from a mood and put into the setting. The whole vampire-slaying is the same as going to school; just another part of life, and as that part of life there's nothing typically horrific about it just as there's nothing really fantastical about "humans with pointy ears". They're just part of the setting the story happens in, and give us a general starting point from which to build those stories.
“If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos -
@Thenomain Why do you have to break me, THeno?
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If you're broken, then you can be rebuilt. Tougher. Faster. Stronger.
Buffy for me strikes the same chords as Smallville did. Smallville wasn't a superhero show, it was a teen drama focusing on a superhero setting. Buffy isn't a about the horrors of vampires, it's about the horrors of being human using the vampire theme to start us off.
Speaking of being human, have you seen Being Human, the BBC one?
Apocalypse World (the game that MonsterHearts is based upon) as three general rules. The first one is: Barf Forth Apocalyptica. Meaning: Whatever you do, do it to the hilt. Name everything. Make it personal. Not because that's cool role-play, but because that makes the mood of "everything is going to shit" all that much more tangible.
And here I swing myself around from disagreeing with @Arkandel to saying essentially the same thing that he does: If it's not tangible, it's not horror. (I disagree with his approach, but so it goes.)
Tangibility also is key for Sci-Fi, Noir, and many other genres. If Fantasy can call itself just because setting, then why not Horror? It doesn't meet everyone's approval, but I find Saw and Hostel to be gore-porn and beneath notice tho it fits the Horror genre.
I didn't mean to get this preachy, but these academic discussions bring it out in me. Do what you want, call it what you want, have fun with it, and play it to the hilt.
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...OTT for MonsterHearts right now plz thnks
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I have a TT group that runs Monsterhearts and we have a blast with it. We run a Vampire Diaries-esque type game and it works really well. I was dubious given how lite the system is but I'm a fan.
