Rewards in WoD

[Glitch]

MOD VOICE: Topic split here.

[Olsson]

And now, for something entierly different.

So in a onlime MU* setting, this one aimed at World of Darkness since it is what I am storytelling,, how do you people think it is applicable to give out physical rewards gained from plots. The most obvious solution is money, but the 'currency' system of Resources in place doesn't really allow for much of it.

Although it worked with what Darkwater for example did where you get a certain amount of Resource points every month, so you can save up, hand out, bet etc. I think Kingsmouth does something similar.

But in the base, no. Which then moves us onto other physical rewards, items? Can you pick up the gun from the bad guy you just shot? Usually this seems to be not allowed or require a great amount of paperwork.

This mostly comes up when I feel I need to create an incentive for characters to go to location X for plot. And the most obvious way is to promise reward, but since XP isn't exactly a thing you can use as motivations IC, what do you do? Or do I just trust players to make up excuses for their PCs to attend?

[HelloRaptor]

@Olsson

Can you pick up the gun from the bad guy you just shot? Usually this seems to be not allowed or require a great amount of paperwork.

Yeah, it's kind of ridiculous how touchy staff get about this.

"BUT OMG WHAT IF SOMEBODY RAN A PLOT JUST SO SOMEONE COULD GET A BUNCH OF GUNS FOR FREE!!!111omgomgomgogm!"

...yeah, that'd be... terrible, I guess? Your MU* might crack open and somethingsomething, I guess?

[Coin]

Kind of the wrong thread for this conversation. Hardly feels like bitching.

In any case, on the topic of "omg, someone ran a plot and now someone else has a bunch of guns!!!" On Eldritch we pretty much reserve having to have things approved for like, military-rate hardware and weaponry, or supernatural stuff. That said, if I'm storytelling and you have a stash of illegal armaments in your basement and an NPC cop ends up down there, it might be an issue IC... but... yeah?

Equipment, especially long, pointless lists of what equipment a person has access to, seems ridiculous.

Actually, I would probably be totally into it if it were a low-Resources (i.e. most characters don't have much money to spare) Hunter game. I could see that game benefitting from a character having all their important shit in +inv and being super protective of their +1 Laptop or whatever.

[The Tree of Woe]

Things that give you significant bonuses on dice rolls are not that difficult to get.

Just remembering to mention that you've lit incense and/or that you did the LBRP before you started occulty-stuff can give you +1 or +2 dice on rolls.

Also, honestly, unless you're a damn good shot you're probably better off throwing that gun at a werewolf or vampire. You might surprise them long enough to run away.

[Coin]

@The-Tree-of-Woe said:

Things that give you significant bonuses on dice rolls are not that difficult to get.

Just remembering to mention that you've lit incense and/or that you did the LBRP before you started occulty-stuff can give you +1 or +2 dice on rolls.

Also, honestly, unless you're a damn good shot you're probably better off throwing that gun at a werewolf or vampire. You might surprise them long enough to run away.

I would really love to play on a smaller Hunter-only game where resources were so scarce that Good Time Management was an exceedingly useful Merit for occultists because that one fucking incense stick needs to last you through several rituals! Hehe.

[Arkandel]

I'd love a Hunter and M/M+ only game where you are constantly outmatched and outclassed by everything at all. Maybe include ghouls and WB types as playable, too, but that's it.

That ghoul with Vigor 2? He's the PvP king.

[Tempest]

How would you keep the game at that level though? Cap XP at like 20, forever, or something? Just let people cg with X amount of xp, and that's all they get forever?

I'd be a-okay with that as a player (assuming of course it's that way for everybody, without exception), but it seems like nobody ever wants to make a game where XP is actually limited.

There's always a lot of talk about "lower power level games/blahblah", but it is not reflected at all, by there being any game around that is designed that way.

[Coin]

@Arkandel
Naw. I probably wouldn't even allow psychic/supernatural Merits (without some serious drawbacks, if I did). I've said it before, but I would love a Hunter-only game that was less about the division of Compacts and Conspiracies and more about how people organize themselves organically. You would have TF:V and Union and even Network Zer0 analogues, obviously (maybe even called that), but I would de-formalize it, at least at the beginning.

But yeah, basically being outclassed. I'd probably also just straight up state that we expect high PC turnover and to be ready for some DEAAAAAAAAATH.

@Tempest
Make XP gains based on Conditions/Aspirations/etc., with minimal passive gains, if any at all, and then just make it fucking brutal.

[Tempest]

Personally, I like Ark's idea about allowing minor templates, but -capping- them in some way. Don't let a ghoul have vigor 5/etc. In part, I'm just besotted with the idea of how amazingly useful stuff like Dot 1 of Obfuscate/Dominate/etc would be for a ghoul. There'd also be /serious/ worries about getting vitae. If you have 3 stamina, you have 3 vitae, and every time you spend one, you have to /seriously/ work to get it back.

I mean really, even in a mortal-only game, unless you significantly set some kind of limits on just flat-out what stats/etc somebody can take, a combat PC can easily throw out 13-15 attack dice for 4+ attacks. And that's before you factor in ridiculous things like the 'thrust' style technique. Despite all the complaints about GMC's defense, you have to be a combat-focused character with a twinky-defense power like Celerity at 4-5 to not cringe at 13+ attack dice.

[Arkandel]

XP is irrelevant if you can't buy anything with it.

If you're a regular mortal then even if you get 3-4 XP a week (which is a lot) you still won't keep up with a single enraged Uratha or Gangrel.

For mortals spreading that shit out is all you can really do. Having influences, maybe multiple hideouts, alternate identities... just trying to desperately stay a step ahead of an opposition which outclasses you in every conceivable way.

[Coin]

Yeah. And I would probably lobby for it to just have a high PC turnover rate, like I said. Even give higher than average beginning XP and then just watch people go through the woodchipper and have fun.

[Tempest]

@Arkandel I'm not sure I agree. You'd have to purposefully scale all your supernatural enemies to be abnormally strong, if you rained xp on plain mortals. I mean, it's a hunter game. I doubt one mortal would be looking for a werewolf/vamp alone. What're they going to do against 3-4 mortals who are all throwing 12-15 dice on attacks? (Mind you, 12 dice on an attack is 3 in a stat, 4 in a skill w/specialty+area of expertise, and a willpower spend. Not at all hard to reach, and in fact, wouldn't be too absurd to come out of CG with.) God forbid if the mortals actually have hardcore weapons above like 'fist and knives' levels. Even 1 success can easily be 3-5 damage.

I play a vampire on Reno who has 60 XP. 40 of that XP has been spent on discipline dots. She has Celerity 3 and a whopping 9 defense. Three CG-level 0 xp mortals who were made for combat could probably ruin her day, which is kind of sad to think about. On the plus side, they'd have a hard time stopping her from getting away.

[Coin]

@Tempest said:

@Arkandel I'm not sure I agree. You'd have to purposefully scale all your supernatural enemies to be abnormally strong, if you rained xp on plain mortals. I mean, it's a hunter game. I doubt one mortal would be looking for a werewolf/vamp alone. What're they going to do against 3-4 mortals who are all throwing 12-15 dice on attacks? (Mind you, 12 dice on an attack is 3 in a stat, 4 in a skill w/specialty+area of expertise, and a willpower spend. Not at all hard to reach, and in fact, wouldn't be too absurd to come out of CG with.) God forbid if the mortals actually have hardcore weapons above like 'fist and knives' levels. Even 1 success can easily be 3-5 damage.

I play a vampire on Reno who has 60 XP. 40 of that XP has been spent on discipline dots. She has Celerity 3 and a whopping 9 defense. Three CG-level 0 xp mortals who were made for combat could probably ruin her day, which is kind of sad to think about. On the plus side, they'd have a hard time stopping her from getting away.

The point is that vampires or werewolves that groups run into probably are going to get killed or run off.... but they can and most likely will take one of those Hunters with them, if the storyteller is running something brutal like what's being posited above.

We might wanna move this conversation to a new thread.

@EmmahSue, @Glitch, or @Thenomain, do us a solid? Thanks!

[Arkandel]

@Tempest Given Gauru alone would trigger Down and Dirty combat (which basically means 'one PC dies every turn') it doesn't look so good for the good guys. Not to mention how many powers in both Werewolf and Vampire - such as Fortitude - can reduce damage taken, heal up extra fast, exercise crowd control by making some of their enemies flee, etc.

But basically I'd have no issue with a clever group of Hunters finally isolating a Vampire and attacking them where she can't get help from ghouls and even taking her down. Sure, let them have the win, celebrate it with some drinks and copious hooting about how badass they are. Yay!

That's not the end of the plot though, it'd be the beginning, since then the other bloodsuckers would investigate using their own bag'o tricks - including Auspex - then start hunting the hunters down like dogs. That's where the fun is.

[Coin]

@Arkandel said:

@Tempest Given Gauru alone would trigger Down and Dirty combat (which basically means 'one PC dies every turn') it doesn't look so good for the good guys.

This isn't necessarily true. The rule says most humans, which a cell or group of trained Hunters who are the PCs of the game wouldn't really count as, IMO.

But they still suffer from Primal Fear, making their Defense only calculable with Dexterity or Wits, ignoring Athletics/Brawl/Weaponry.

[Arkandel]

@Coin See, I think that depends on what you call "trained Hunters". To me that's not 'former marines/SAS', it's closer to 'breakfast joint waitresses and McDonalds shift managers'.

Sure, I guess PCs could be excluded from the DnD rule though just to let them not get slaughtered every single time a wolf looks at them funny.

[Ganymede]

@Coin said:

Make XP gains based on Conditions/Aspirations/etc., with minimal passive gains, if any at all, and then just make it fucking brutal.

That's often not good enough. If you want a brutal game, I'd suggest awarding Beats only under the following conditions:

In a scene, you:

1. You voluntarily fail a roll without rolling.
2. You involuntarily roll a dramatic failure.
3. You roll an exceptional success.
4. You suffer damage.

AND

5. You successfully obtain your objective.

It sort of forces people into lethal situations. The gamble is that, if you fail at the end, you get nothing.

[Coin]

@Arkandel said:

@Coin See, I think that depends on what you call "trained Hunters". To me that's not 'former marines/SAS', it's closer to 'breakfast joint waitresses and McDonalds shift managers'.

Sure, I guess PCs could be excluded from the DnD rule though just to let them not get slaughtered every single time a wolf looks at them funny.

Well, being a PC makes you exceptional. There's a reason why examples of "normal people NPCs" in the rules tend to only get like, 3 rolls they have more than 4 dice in.

[ThatOneDude]

@Arkandel said:

@Coin See, I think that depends on what you call "trained Hunters". To me that's not 'former marines/SAS', it's closer to 'breakfast joint waitresses and McDonalds shift managers'.

Sure, I guess PCs could be excluded from the DnD rule though just to let them not get slaughtered every single time a wolf looks at them funny.

This is why Hunter has the Tier system. Is that what you guys are referring to?