The 100: The Mush

[Ghost]

You would be amazed how many 5W players I've talked to since 100 got some buzz about your chars being central. There are people in this thread pointing it out the practice as well. Let's not turn this into some salty flame war, but the two of you should probably be more in touch or self-aware about the critique. Players of your games feel this is behavior that travels with you two game to game. Believe it or don't, I don't really care. Pay attention to the commentary in this thread, though, on behalf of your player base.

[Deleted]

I know I was part of the derail, but could a wiz move the non-advertisey parts of this thread to a Hog Pit thread instead?

[GirlCalledBlu]

@Ghost

I am listening, thank you. But I felt the need to correct you because your evidence was faulty. Nastily saying that our characters had influential political marriages is false, and I have no idea how to approach being accused of using Staff NPCs to funnel plots to characters like it is a bad thing.

Has Grey been in a lot of scenes? Yeah, and I think he acknowledged that. But, is he the central character? Uh, no. Quantity of participation does not equate absolute influence (edited to include the word absolute). Characters who have made significant impact on the direction of the story so far by their actions through RP and requests and their interactions with Staff NPCs:

Cameron
Morgan
Cookie
Cole
Fiona
Faolan
Quinn
Devin
Ruth
Grey

Characters who are impacting the story through their interpersonal relationships with other characters who are not already in the list above:

Cassandra
Thomas
Max
Niner
Asher
Silas
Martin
Frankie
Silver
Evie

I'm sure there are others, and I hope they realize that me forgetting of them is not a slight.

I'm a storytelling-based Staffer. I don't seek to create games just to give people sandboxes to play in. I'm there to tell a story -- so yes, The Husband has been in a lot of scenes The Wife is running, but I am in charge of this story arc, so I'm running a lot of scenes and naturally he's going to be participating in the story -- and why shouldn't he? If he wasn't a staffer, he'd still be in those scenes. If he wasn't a staffer, he'd still be throwing himself out for RP. If he's not running the scene, why does it matter that he's there to participate, and participate at the same level as other PCs?

The thing that bothers me about the ire here is that there's some misplaced assumption that Staffers are not allowed to participate in the games they run. Most Staffers become Staff because they play the game, and play it well, and are recognized. Doesn't mean they suddenly stop playing their characters when they become Staff. And most people who create MUSHes tend to want to play in the game they create, otherwise why create it?

There are plenty of games out there that are run by a private group of people who don't invite others in because they want to play their little games without having to deal with anonymous issues. Obviously that's not why I created this game with Draco and @Seraphim73, because if that was my intention, I'm pretty sure I'd just go RP in a Google Doc with some close knit friends and play out my The 100 fantasy stories there.

Being Staff is hard, and not always fun, and definitely makes you the focus of ire if you mess anything up, but I like telling stories with people. I told stories with you, @Ghost, on 5W and you sure didn't seem to mind it when your character was given special scenes with NPCs or particular highlights. So, whatever chapped your ass in 5W is a total mystery to me based on the stories you participated in and were invited to participate in.

I do what I can, and I think I do it pretty well in the long run. Do I probably fuck it up sometimes? Well, gosh darn, I sure do, but I also think that I try to be pretty damn transparent when I do fuck it all up.

But, I'm here to tell stories about and with my characters too, just like everyone else who comes to the game. And I make it my weekly goal to find at least one character to throw a story hook to -- sometimes big, sometimes small. If @Seraphim73 is a bad player because he participates in RP and joins in on scenes, and generally tries to engage in the story, well then shoot my ovaries, bummer for him. But he's not doing anything any other active player isn't doing on that game -- which is show up and RP.

So if the game doesn't fit you, or you had a bad experience on 5W (which I'm pretty smart enough to know that some people did, because never has there been a game that makes everyone crow), that's fine. And if people are really upset that PCs whose players are Staffers participate in story, I think that they definitely are never going to like playing on a game where I Staff, and probably would be happier somewhere else where Staff either flat out lie which characters are theirs to hide their participation (sometimes for good, sometimes for ill) or just always play NPCs.

Just to nail it home: Yup. Staffers have PCs on The 100, and yeah, they RP with others and participate in story, and aren't just background characters. If that's a problem, then I have no idea why anyone would want to be Staff to begin with. I'd give up being a Staffer before I gave up being a Player.

And just to make @Admiral happy: Come play The 100 MUSH. Frankie almost has her moonshine still in full operation, so underage drinking is incoming!

[Ghost]

That was a very long and beautiful post.

Players are complaining about your current game's staff PC focus, and players were complaining about in on 5W. What you and @Seraphim73 feel about that reputation, or whether or not you choose to acknowledge it, doesn't mean that that reputation doesn't exist.

Enjoy the game.

[TNP]

@GirlCalledBlu said in The 100: The Mush:

The thing that bothers me about the ire here is that there's some misplaced assumption that Staffers are not allowed to participate in the games they run.

Oh, this is an OLD argument and not at all limited to The 100. Some games had a rule that no staffer was allowed to have a PC on the game. Some games (WoD) have the rule the staffer isn't allowed to have a PC in the sphere they staff. Some have neither rule. So yeah, old argument and one that has never been answered. It's all a matter of preference and how much someone trusts staff.

[Deleted]

Impacting the game is one thing.

I was simply stating that according to my friend, every single plot-heavy scene was absolutely spearheaded by that Grey guy. He lead every expedition, organized every plan and has been the main focus of the game.

My friend's words, here. "Since they removed most of the canon characters, it's like they replaced Clarke, Bellamy, and Finn with his character."

[GirlCalledBlu]

@Admiral said in The 100: The Mush:

My friend's words, here. "Since they removed most of the canon characters, it's like they replaced Clarke, Bellamy, and Finn with his character."

I would really like to find ways to refute that, but I feel like the whole "The Wife" thing makes any attempts moot. If he wants to defend himself, or counter, or whatever, he can.

I guess all I can say is... who the hell would want to be Clarke?

[Deleted]

Who would want to be the person the show is about?

Pretty much everyone who ever wrote a Mary Sue/Gary Stu in any medium I'd imagine.

[Ghost]

The point is not to refute it, but to understand that your players past and present have these conceptions. Rushing to refute it is a defensive measure, but doesn't do anything to address the player base concerns.

[ixokai]

@Admiral said in The 100: The Mush:

Impacting the game is one thing.

I was simply stating that according to my friend, every single plot-heavy scene was absolutely spearheaded by that Grey guy. He lead every expedition, organized every plan and has been the main focus of the game.

My friend's words, here. "Since they removed most of the canon characters, it's like they replaced Clarke, Bellamy, and Finn with his character."

I think this is pretty off.

Grey's simply proactive. He has no more access then anyone else and if he tends to be a little more in charge then others its because he tends to just step up and tell people to do things that aren't stupid.

Proactive players are relatively rare. When they happen on your game they tend to dominate the things that get done because that's what they spend most of their time doing.

And there's a growing IC opposition to Grey; not to mention the game's still practically brand new. Its playerbase has only exploded in this last weekish.

That's just my opinion and direct, first-person observation.

[ full disclosure: I play Cameron ]

[gasket]

Staff needs to be very careful - stupidly careful - to avoid the accusations of favoritism.

Making an alt that wants to do all the things, instead of letting non-staff players handle it, is not the way to do this.

[ixokai]

@gasket said in The 100: The Mush:

Staff needs to be very careful - stupidly careful - to avoid the accusations of favoritism.

Making an alt that wants to do all the things, instead of letting non-staff players handle it, is not the way to do this.

I don't disagree, in theory, but... meh.

If this were a WOD game or something, I could see myself caring or something, but here, I just can't. I feel fully empowered to try to do anything I can think of. (I might not SUCCEED, but I can try) And I can get involved in anything that's happening.

I couldn't ask for more. Its been a long time since I played a game this engaging and seemingly open to my actions.

EDIT to clarify: The reason I am more prone to caring on a WOD game is that WOD games tend to be, in my experience, inherently more antagonistic and I find I often have to fight to get an inch, let alone change the course of the story. That might be personal baggage I take to the WOD game, but I don't have that baggage here.

[GirlCalledBlu]

@Admiral said in The 100: The Mush:

Mary Sue/Gary Stu

The type of character archetype that will never go extinct. They are like tardigrades.

[Ominous]

I will say that I have found it a little difficult to get involved, as things seem to be a bit behind-closed-doors. Also things move incredibly fast. If you're away from the server for a week, you will be horribly behind. This time last week, we had only just discovered and been attacked by the Grounders. In the intervening time, we have rescued those captured in the first battle, captured our own Grounders, interrogated said Grounders, released said Grounders, and are now entering into negotiations with a Grounder chief. You could have easily dragged that out over two or even three weeks. There is no rush. The server doesn't have a bomb strapped to it that's going to blow if you drop below 55 mph.

[ixokai]

@Ominous said in The 100: The Mush:

I will say that I have found it a little difficult to get involved, as things seem to be a bit behind-closed-doors. Also things move incredibly fast. If you're away from the server for a week you'd be horribly behind. This time last week, we had only just been attacked by the Grounders. In the intervening time, we have rescued those captured in the first battle, captured our own Grounders, interrogated said Grounders, released said Grounders, and are now entering into negotiations with a Grounder chief. You could have easily dragged that out over two or even three weeks. There is no rush. The server doesn't have a bomb strapped to it that's going to blow if you drop below 55 mph.

This complaint I actually mostly agree with. The game moves incredibly fast and Andromeda has commented on it speeding up a couple times, which freaks me out.

Every IC day takes 2 OOC days on the mush. Normally, that sounds slow -- I've been on games that move 4 IC days in one OOC day that felt slower.

The difference is something real happens almost every other day, if not every day.

The reason its fast is that the entire first season of the TV show takes place over like 20 odd days, so it fits the story we're living through in this mirror universe, so I understand it... but in practice, its fast and if you don't keep up I can see you having problems getting in.

[GirlCalledBlu]

@Ominous and @ixokai (missed your response before I clicked submit)

An extremely fair observation/complaint we've gotten. We are slowing things down in response (edit: and providing more downtime for less fly-by-your-pants RP). While the first season of the show takes place over 21 days, doesn't mean we have to try to cram everything we possibly can in, in the same amount of time.

Hopefully that will help.

[ixokai]

@Admiral said in The 100: The Mush:

Who would want to be the person the show is about?

I suspect @GirlCalledBlu was joking, because on the actual game, almost everyone seems to hate Clarke

[Ominous]

@GirlCalledBlu I honestly think that will greatly help trim the complaints of cliquishness. I am in your second list of people who have impacted the game through interpersonal relationships, but that's not the list I have been shooting for. Every time I get around to trying to get myself involved in a storyline, it's already been decided and things are moving on. Giving more time for things to play out and more people to get a scene or two in should help make it feel less like a group of six or seven people are running the show.

[GirlCalledBlu]

@Ominous Then I definitely hope slowing things down will help give people more time to connect with the story. And honestly, I think if I don't slow down, I'll burn myself out and then that would be bad. I'm feeling it after two major RP nights almost in a row!

Or I'm just really starting to get old.

[bored]

Y'all should probably make a 5W thread.

That said, while I wouldn't take a position as extreme as @Admiral or @Ghost's, I can see where they're coming from. While the staff PCs might have been minor, but the key thing is that they played all the NPCs and the NPCs were the only people of... any influence, period. The politics/'what is really going on' were as opaque on that game as any I've run into, really, it was all stuff about the royal family's own succession and various NPCs vaguely shuffling around while the rest of us kind of wondered who was in charge and where we got our orders.

For my part, I was one of the few people playing an actual (if 2nd tier) HoH as opposed to an heir (either everyone else wanted to be young and hot, or all the 'real' HoHes were NPC), and despite his whole house setup/history/etc being about naval service, I was flat out refused being any part of the command structure. Sure, I was told I could 'earn it' (with no real clarity on what that involved), but that's a little odd when you're playing a 50-something year old supposedly at the high mark/end of his career, not the beginning. So I faffed around a little with PrPs for my family, eventually got bored and went on my merry way.

Ultimately, it didn't feel highly corrupt or anything, but it did feel like the people running the game were very self-involved and writing a story on their own, and weren't too interested in most of the PC population in the bigger scheme. We could definitely be the heroes of individual missions, but the grand scope of stuff seemed like it was 99% NPC controlled.