Finding roleplay

Arkandel

Or I put myself in a public location and broadcast I'm doing so with an open invite to anyone who wants to stop by, as long as I'm in there, is welcome to join me at any time. I've actually found /that/ gets more shy nibbles/show ups than asking on chan. I'm not sure why. Has anyone else found this to be the case?

I have, but I won't deny it's bitten me in the ass before. For example a common issue was when too many people showed up (after all if you extend an open invitation you can't turn anyone down) to the point where the scene was impossible to enjoy.

Oh, which reminds me!

Have you folks ever found meet-and-greet to be a way to be conductive to finding long-term RP? Those scenes are everywhere in every MU* I've ever played and I've hated the vast majority or was indifferent about the rest, but I can't tell if it's the large scene hater in me being peeved or if it's a genuinely not great idea. The way I see it, it allows people who've already hooked their characters' backgrounds and/or already know each other to be buddies while the rest pose about hanging near the food.

mietze

It depends on the game and the context.

Yes, I have, for highly structured things like "Meet your Covenant/Clan people!" especially on smallish games (or small clan/covs). Or interest groups. In a larger context (a whole sphere or giant ass plot scene) it's been hit or miss. I tend to clam up/freeze up in large scenes, but what they are valuable for to me is to take note of others who I'm interested in and would like to tag for later. I have even paged folks with "Hey, I tend to feel a little frazzled in large scenes, but your PC would have caught the eye of mine when you talked about liking to knit doilies/your latest research/you love roller derby/I saw that you too are from city/country/timeperiod, would you like to RP in a smaller setting sometime?"

I tend to look at wikis /after/ I play with people rather than before, but I think it's because wiki still feels new-ish to me. I also look at the wanted boards and sometimes even if I'm not their wanted type of PC if it looks like it'd dovetail well with mine or someone I know, I will reach out to people about RP based on that too. (Or hook them in to PCs I know also love the things they love, even if I don't).

I think ultimately what tends to get me the most new RP connections is personal outreach. It's a lot of asks though. So I go in cycles where I need to take a break from it because you wouldn't think it would be hard but it sort of is on a personal level (even though the reception is almost always positive).

Kanye Qwest

@Arkandel said in Finding roleplay:

@Kanye-Qwest said in Finding roleplay:

Wikis seem to be a much bigger deal in WoD games - but then, I've only ever played Firan and a couple of WoD games. I much, much preferred Firan's grid because it had no ooc lounge room for people to just hang out in, and public places were public places.

If you ask me, hanging out in the OOC room is too high a price to pay for finding RP. No matter how great the RP ends up being.

Preach. You might find rp or even make a new friendship, BUT AT WHAT COST.

Arkandel

@mietze Sometimes I feel out of place in unstructured scenes. Getting 5+ people in a room, other than the spam generated (which on its own is unpleasant, it's something to be dealt with rather than a good thing) without something concrete to keep them there makes me lose interest. I've enjoyed roleplay in that vein in the past but it was always when the characters already knew each other to some degree and they were there to get shit done - either a PrP, leading to one, or conspiring to bring down a Prince or such.

But otherwise those food get-togethers. Argh.

Speaking of PrPs though, I've found running them is a mixed bag. Even on BITM where people seemed to have fun I couldn't quite translate that into roleplay for my character - since, after all, he wasn't actually present for those scenes. In that way it's an inefficient way of playing, I suppose, since you spend hours playing with others but get out with no more ways of hooking into their stuff than you did walking in.

Still, RP is RP I suppose, whether my PC is present or not.

mietze

I hear you on PrP running. I enjoy PrPs and occasional running for what it is and because I enjoy seeing other people's STing styles and people enjoying themselves, but honestly I don't see it as a way to advance personal story anymore. Maybe my expectation on other places that it would contributed to burnout/feeling kind of bad or left out, even though I don't think it's fair to expect that of that particular vehicle.

And yes, I definitely feel out of place sometimes in unstructured scenes. I think one of my great joys of late is that for the least year or so I've been mostly playing support PCs, so ICly and OOCly I get to help draw people in and try to blunt some of that discomfort. You don't always have that option as a non-support PC or one that is actually running running things, not because you don't want to but just because you're so busy with business or your own stuff it's hard to keep an eye out for oocly shy new people, ect.

Kanye Qwest

@Arkandel

So why not ask someone in that group to run a PRP where you can be integrated IC? That would be very reasonable turnabout.

EmmahSue

I'll admit it, at long last.

I don't like people running things for me.

I can't tell if that means I'm a monster who doesn't trust others, or if I just don't think it's much fun, or what. But in the end, I'm not a fan of being the center of a story. I'd rather run ten stories and not get any personal RP than anything focused on me me me. The community's movement away from teaching and/or get-the-stuff scenes is a blessing like rain upon my parched and trodden heart.

ES

Arkandel

@EmmahSue said in Finding roleplay:

But in the end, I'm not a fan of being the center of a story.

Does a PrP ran for you need to have a story revolving around your PC?

Also, you are a monster. You probably don't even like Tolkien.

mietze

I suppose when I think of someone running a PrP I'm assuming their PC is not involved at all (though maybe in the sense of, hey, would go get this/look at this for me? sort of brief appearance at the beginning for things run for a small group of people who trade off). So getting a break from being the runner just means that you get to participate at all, RPing your PC and doing things.

I have run a few of things "for" specific people, always at their request, with some specific goal (like a becoming or merit loss, ect) and I was chosen because they knew they liked my RP and ST style. (I think) Or I was asked as one one of the volunteer PrP people who would do things outside of their own groups (which is my preference, to not have my PC involved)--but I'd never center a PrP around a specific character unless I knew them well or there was a very specific goal/request--and even then I'd probably not do it for just anyone--just because I know a lot of people who have been burned and had their RP messed up because someone offered to run something "just for them" and it ended up going way way way off the rails/not their expectation, and I would hate to do that to someone.

Arkandel

@mietze My idea of running a PrP 'for' someone is really to run a story involving some major themes of their characters. But in isolation it seems futile - the character grows better outside of a vacuum - and in truth I consider any given plot to be a wash if people don't roleplay about it outside the ST'ed scenes themselves.

So this brings me to the next question folks - have PrPs been good places to 'meet people' and make lasting IC relationships, or do they tend to be self-contained in your experience? Do they generate RP out of those +events?

Seraphim73

@Arkandel I sometimes use RP-Seeking tools, but most games I've played on recently have pretty much ignored them, and just gone by the "page someone if you want to RP with them," or if you're desperate "ask on Public channel or in the OOC lounge." They're not the most efficient way to find RP, but they sometimes work.

I do remember back on A Moment in Tyme, however, we used the RP Seeking code extensively, it was how people usually advertised for scenes... so maybe it's just a community preference sort of thing.

In my view, running PrPs isn't about pushing your own character's storyline forward, it's about adding to the game's overarching storyline. On some games, Storytellers are available to run scenes to push personal storylines forward, on others, you have to just do it yourself in a sort of sub-PrP scene (that is to say, just getting together with interested parties and RPing, without it being an official PrP). Either way works... I love having someone else to run those scenes so I can just focus on my character, but that's generally impractical unless you have a person or small group of people whom you RP with regularly who all tie their characters' stories together.

Generally, I try to just thread my character's personal storyline into the game's storyline... get interested in something that matters to the game, and you can push your personal storyline forward while participating in plot-scenes. Then you can draw in other players to prep/moderate fallout from those plot-scenes, and that can help develop your character's story too.

Thenomain

@Arkandel

My secrets:

Check any hangouts list.
Ask people I know.
Listen to a channel that's the first step down from Pub, unless it's a narrower-focused game like Bump in the Night where Pub is already at that level.
Always have a non-Mush backup plan, like code or FO4. I get bored way easily, and use RP to fill my desire to hold conversations, whether real or imaginary.

I have never used "Want RP" style information (never have I ever), but I have used "RP Preferences" style information. I extensively use lists of public hangout spots. I rarely use "where" itself because the information is too broad to find anything more than trends and to stalk someone.

I don't use events code which feels a little strange but I have the crippling social fear that if I go to an event I'd be expected to know what I'm doing, and by rolling stats in front of a group of strangers may expose just how little I know what I'm doing with the game system.

mietze

PrPs or the equivalent have been if they're small enough to allow for dynamic RP and there's been something to bond over. But that's pretty rare.

I think the factors for it NOT being conducive to generating RP ties to new people as a result are the following (but not limited to this):

PrPs on many of the games I have played in the last few years are the only form of potentially non-pure-social scenes people get, so they tend to be overcrowded with people glomming on without really thinking what's logical/appropriate to their PC. In addition, non-staff storytellers often times are very well aware of these fact (that this is a rare opportunity for players to do something that's not a version of baRP especially if they don't have a circle of friends already, and don't feel empowered or feel bad about adhering to their posted scene limits or screening for ICness, because they don't want to upset players who are starving for anything, anything at all.
Because of the above, I think, people who do list public/unrestricted events burn out quickly, or end up having to change over to more spectator-ish scenes. It burns them out, so then you have largely people who don't mind 8-10 people scenes (which IMO are much less likely to bond/get to know other PC and players with a higher frustration/ooc checkout quotient) being the only public runners while most others have gone back to "those I know and maybe a +1 or two". Totally understandable, but it doesn't allow for a lot of mixing up.
Sometimes it's difficult to get blurbs about those PCs in advance, even if asked for, so the runner can't try to incorporate bits to draw PCs out and towards each other. Yes, that's partially player responsibility too, but I think the runner has a unique tactical and vantage point that can help facilitate that--but while I've found that lots of times people are willing to front load their stats for you, they're less likely to share ways to draw them in on a story level. I'm not sure why that is--maybe they don't know themselves because they've had limited opportunities to flesh out a PC? They worry another player will use it against them if they share that info? They worry that they will be made the 'star' when they don't want to, or that it will feel bad to them if they bother typing up all that stuff and it's not used at all or given consideration? Or they don't know what to put because they've never been asked before?
A lot of time by the time the scene is over, there's not a lot of time to make plans to meet up or to exchange info, or get to know each other beyond the action, and the players can be so tired that they are just trying to get through OOCly so they can go to bed or whatever. Follow through can be difficult. SOmeone who will go out of their way to attend a PrP for a chance at that action or to be included but they may be hooking up with people who don't share their usual timezone, so that makes forging more RP difficult even if it's very much desired.

Arkandel

@Thenomain said in Finding roleplay:

if I go to an event I'd be expected to know what I'm doing, and by rolling stats in front of a group of strangers may expose just how little I know what I'm doing with the game system.

I can't relate to that part, I guess. You should ask @Coin how much of the game system I'm familiar with in comparison to the number of scenes full of strangers I've ran.

... It's like being a surgeon who never went to med school. Hah-hah, I'm sure it'll all be fine! I'm almost positively certain this is where I'm supposed to cut.

Derp

I've never understood this thing where the ST's PC can't be involved in the story. Most often, the groups that I end up largely running with/for are groups of people that my own PC is affiliated with. Cabal/Pack/Whatever. It doesn't make a ton of sense for one of us to always be mysteriously missing when it comes time to run a PrP, and in large part, we mostly sort of ... just ignore it, I guess, because we always end up there anyway.

The ST's PC is never the center of attention, or anything. At best, they're somewhat sidelined, at worst, they're the diversion for the rest of the group. They're never quite 'in it' as much as the others are. But they're still -there-, often. Not always, but often. And it's never created any issues, in my experience. It's a very good way to get the group to bond together over something.

Deliberate exclusion has never seemed to be a good way to balance things for me. Either you know how to make it work, in which case ST on, or you don't -- in which case, have someone else do the heavy lifting.

That said, I've found PrPs to be a great way to forge lasting relationships.

Lithium

@Derp That's because the sheep can't believe that a staffer could be impartial towards themselves.

I treat my PC's as NPC's if I am running a pack scene they are in. Even if I am pack leader I will say the Beta has command this time, so I can ICly test the Beta's worthyness of being beta for example, and to let someone else have a go at leader RP even if I am online. It creates stories for people but...

The Moaning Masses(tm) have zero trust for staffers these days, we can supposedly be impartial only when we ourselves are not involved at all. Even if all dice rolls are visible to all, so they can see everything, they will still claim that the staffer cheated and if they can't even trust STAFF how the hell are they going to trust their fellow players?

They can't, and this is a major reason why inertia brings games down imho.

ThatOneDude

@Thenomain said in Finding roleplay:

@Arkandel

My secrets:

Check any hangouts list.

Ask people I know.

Listen to a channel that's the first step down from Pub, unless it's a narrower-focused game like Bump in the Night where Pub is already at that level.

Always have a non-Mush backup plan, like code or FO4. I get bored way easily, and use RP to fill my desire to hold conversations, whether real or imaginary.

I have never used "Want RP" style information (never have I ever), but I have used "RP Preferences" style information. I extensively use lists of public hangout spots. I rarely use "where" itself because the information is too broad to find anything more than trends and to stalk someone.

I don't use events code which feels a little strange but I have the crippling social fear that if I go to an event I'd be expected to know what I'm doing, and by rolling stats in front of a group of strangers may expose just how little I know what I'm doing with the game system.

But if you don't go to events, what do you do in RP?

Thenomain

@ThatOneDude said in Finding roleplay:

But if you don't go to events, what do you do in RP?

Rescue damsels, fight monsters, spend my loot on ale and whores. The same kinds of things that you do during events, only without the pressure that we're on a time crunch and that the Plot Must Be Resolved. I also get to socialize and plot and plan for greater deeds all on my own time. This last part is extremely important because I don't have time to just sit around and do everything. I can't (both because of my job and mental incapability) RP through a phone, and I have made promises for coding to people who have offered to pay me in everything except for RP--with the exception of the crew at Bump in the Night, to whom I'm grateful.

(Note, this doesn't include the people who RP with me for free, most of whom are awesome people and all but a precious few at least are giving.)

See, in the days before PrPs, people would either get together and have something happen and that leads to something else happening and so on or so forth, or staff would. I do not like the concept of PrPs for reasons above, but to re-state in this context are because they seem to be formulaic and that's not what I'm into.

I am, to vent a little, frustrated at the Fallcoast Changeling plot going on right now as it's pretty much a matter of: Show up and participate to the forgone conclusion. Some people are way okay with this, and good on them, but for me there's no mystery, discovery, or agency. We're watching staff transform the sphere under the IC threat of "if you don't bad things will happen", knowing that the changes will happen anyway and nothing bad will actually happen. Well, nothing bad that I can't pretend my character isn't involved in anyway.

So I do anything else instead. Involve myself in the opening of a new safe spot for Changelings? A++. Waiting an hour to pose one line how I am throwing rocks over the wall at the bad guys knowing that the good guys were destined to save the day anyway? D- See Me After Class. And I feel really bad about feeling this way because I know a shit-ton of work went into this, and I know that enough people enjoy it that I should just shut up and let them have fun. To you guys? This is nothing new from me. I'm just venting as an example and you can ignore this, or you know where to find me.

I suppose to put it another way, my RP is mainly those things that happen between major events, and occasionally during them, occasionally causing them, just on nobody's schedule but my own.

Duntada

Your post reminds me of the philosophy of a D&D buddy of mine.

"All adventures should start and end the same way. Passed out drunk in a bowl of soup you bought with your last coin, surrounded by whores as the city guard pounds on the door."

Kanye Qwest

It's totally okay not to enjoy things other people put a lot of work into (like Tolkien).

It might not be fun for you to participate in, as there's no sense of purpose for your presence. They probably still churned out a serviceable story in the interest of making the sphere state new and shiny. Like a wonderfully built world. (Like Tolkien)