Finding roleplay

[Lotherio]

@faraday said in Finding roleplay:

@Lotherio said in Finding roleplay:

Once managed/restricted/scheduled its no longer player run, if it needs approval its out of the hands of the players.

We will have to agree to disagree on that point. I understand your position, but if a player came up with the idea and a player is scheduling it and a player is running it, then in my book it's a player-run plot.

Oh, I'm not disagreeing with you at all. I'm just saying once it systemized to the point staff are involved, even if to okay, its not completely player run. Technically, yes, if they do all the work. My PrPs are still what I do for fun with anyone willing to do it with me, regardless of reward/outcome/system.

These days my policy is just "run what you want, just don't wreck the theme."

I think this should be a golden rule, its up there with RP Sparkle and Internet Drama and you! Have fun, don't wreck the them.

[Coin]

It's a lot of silly nit-picking over vocabulary used.

[faraday]

@Coin Well if someone comes into with the assertion that PrPs are horrible, then I think it's important to be on the same page as to what it is we're talking about.

[Coin]

@faraday I agree. I'm actually with you on the definition. Needing approval from staff doesn't make it a NON-Player-Run-Plot. Player-Run-Plot implies it is not run by staff--approving a plot is not running it.

[Three-Eyed Crow]

@Coin said in Finding roleplay:

It's a lot of silly nit-picking over vocabulary used.

Silly nit-picking? Here? The hell, you say.

[Coin]

@Three-Eyed-Crow said in Finding roleplay:

@Coin said in Finding roleplay:

It's a lot of silly nit-picking over vocabulary used.

Silly nit-picking? Here? The hell, you say.

I'm sorry, I believe you mean Hell. The H is capitalized, you heathen.

[Arkandel]

@Coin said in Finding roleplay:

It's a lot of silly nit-picking over vocabulary used.

If there were universally acceptable terms for different kinds of 'storytelling' I'd use them in a heartbeat. I've seen so many variations which translate to "PrP" in assorted games, based on whether it's staff or a player, if it's a participant or a disconnected person without a character running it, if it's sanctioned or not, etc.

Does anyone have a suggestion for such universal terminology?

[Lotherio]

@Coin said in Finding roleplay:

@faraday I agree. I'm actually with you on the definition. Needing approval from staff doesn't make it a NON-Player-Run-Plot. Player-Run-Plot implies it is not run by staff--approving a plot is not running it.

When is the distinction, when staff require approval so they can alter it, make changes to it, say no it doesn't fit, or yes if its changed to meet theme?

I was with the definition, my gripe was more about not liking scheduling, approval, and getting staff involved (to approve or to reward) but now I think I'm with @Thenomain and those the days before 'PrP's ...

I go do stuff that is fun to find RP, I don't get staff approval and I do not do things to wreck theme. And sometimes folks come along, RP found.

[faraday]

@Lotherio said in Finding roleplay:

I was with the definition, my gripe was more about not liking scheduling, approval, and getting staff involved (to approve or to reward) but now I think I'm with @Thenomain and those the days before 'PrP's ...

But that's the thing... even back in 1996 we had TPs run by players. On some games (Maddock) it was free-for-all where you could run whatever you wanted, and on other games (B5) there was a +tpview system where everything had to be submitted and approved and it tied into a events notification system if there was a scheduled date... did I miss the "good old days" somehow?

[Lotherio]

@faraday said in Finding roleplay:

But that's the thing... even back in 1996 we had TPs run by players. On some games (Maddock) it was free-for-all where you could run whatever you wanted, and on other games (B5) there was a +tpview system where everything had to be submitted and approved and it tied into a events notification system if there was a scheduled date... did I miss the "good old days" somehow?

Ah, I do remember back then when TPs needed to be submitted, so when we ran something, we (I) used PrP to distinguish between whether or it had staff approval. At that time (96) I was on original Dragonlance Mux, where staff never approved ideas so we just ran as we pleased, and on original Shadowrun (Before Denver was introduced with the newer edition), where I still ran things without approval.

I've always been daytime player too, even using TP code to schedule, I was SOL lots because no one was around. I've always been better suited to finding a few folks at my time of day and playing with them as we pleased I guess.

So, alternatively, yes it was a hoot on Realms that a big grip was 'there is never anything in evenings' despite most plots happening in the evening. The real jab funny part coming from over 20 years of playing with nothing ever offered during daytime hours, ever, and no staff willing to listen to a gripe about daytime folks not getting anything because staff can't make that time of day. This probably lead to my view of what is a PrP?

[EmmahSue]

I'm informed that my ES-bias is showing (I have a backpack!) and that I shouldn't expect that everyone can just run a plot without staff coming down on them like a ton of bricks for not getting permission. Mea culpa! I thought my world-view matched your world-view.

So the question becomes: how does one become a player who can run a plot without staff going batshit afterwards? I ask it like that because I have no idea how I reached this point and I'm curious if there was something in particular visible from the outside (so that others can replicate to reach this glorious state).

Only half of this is said with mild sarcasm for being accused of bias. The actual question remains: how can we all get to this state of being? Or is it entirely dependent on the staff in question not being pissants?

ES

[Coin]

@EmmahSue said in Finding roleplay:

I'm informed that my ES-bias is showing (I have a backpack!) and that I shouldn't expect that everyone can just run a plot without staff coming down on them like a ton of bricks for not getting permission. Mea culpa! I thought my world-view matched your world-view.

So the question becomes: how does one become a player who can run a plot without staff going batshit afterwards? I ask it like that because I have no idea how I reached this point and I'm curious if there was something in particular visible from the outside (so that others can replicate to reach this glorious state).

Only half of this is said with mild sarcasm for being accused of bias. The actual question remains: how can we all get to this state of being? Or is it entirely dependent on the staff in question not being pissants?

ES

It definitely has some basis in staff involved not being pissants. Beyond that, I think you've simply reached a point in the hobby--at least, this area of the hobby--where people know who you are. Just about everyone present has been in a plot you've run, you've directed several games, you have chatted and consulted with myriad people, you are a known quantity and the people who run games that you migth tend to frequent trust you to read the news files and the rules governing what you can and can't run, and to apply judicial common sense to them.

In short, we know you, and we know that if something would be outside a player's power to run without approval, it's probably something you, ES, would stop and say, "huh, I should probably poke staff about this first" about.

You get to that point by being the kind of person who engages with the games they play in and the people that play in them, essentially. I would trust you to run just about anything because I know you. You've come to me and asked "can I run X or Y" when you intuitively thought "I should ask about this". If you didn't, you didn't ask, and it was fine.

It also, I think, has a lot to do with sharing a mindset about what is okay to run with or without staff approval on games as a default. You, me, @tragedyjones, we tend to share a vision for staff involvement and player limitations, or at least we know each other well enough to know what our opinions on this stuff tend to generally be. That goes a very long way. Someone who doesn't know you as well might not trust you. So it's impossible for us all to reach that level--it's circumstantial and situational.

[Arkandel]

Rules aren't needed because everyone knows each other and/or can be trusted to possess common sense but because that is not true.

My personal opinion is the harder staff squeezes their fist around PrP running the least I want to play their game. But to each their own.

[Coin]

@Arkandel said in Finding roleplay:

Rules aren't needed because everyone knows each other and/or can be trusted to possess common sense but because that is not true.

This sentence doesn't scan.

My personal opinion is the harder staff squeezes their fist around PrP running the least I want to play their game. But to each their own.

These sentences don't answer @EmmahSue's question.

[Arkandel]

@Coin said in Finding roleplay:

@Arkandel said in Finding roleplay:

Rules aren't needed because everyone knows each other and/or can be trusted to possess common sense but because that is not true.

This sentence doesn't scan.

This is a rare time when you're right. You should cherish the occasion. Just like your mom.

... I'm tired. Basically I meant to say rules are needed because either staff isn't great (and thus they hide behind a myriad rules) or players aren't that good at employing common sense. If your PrP will cause half the city to collapse you may want to run it through staff first no matter how much leeway they're allowing.

My personal opinion is the harder staff squeezes their fist around PrP running the least I want to play their game. But to each their own.

These sentences don't answer @EmmahSue's question.

Not all I type here is meant to answer ES' questions!

[Coin]

@Arkandel said in Finding roleplay:

@Coin said in Finding roleplay:

@Arkandel said in Finding roleplay:

Rules aren't needed because everyone knows each other and/or can be trusted to possess common sense but because that is not true.

This sentence doesn't scan.

This is a rare time when you're right. You should cherish the occasion. Just like your mom.

... I'm tired. Basically I meant to say rules are needed because either staff isn't great (and thus they hide behind a myriad rules) or players aren't that good at employing common sense. If your PrP will cause half the city to collapse you may want to run it through staff first no matter how much leeway they're allowing.

I am in agreement with this much more sensible phrasing.

My personal opinion is the harder staff squeezes their fist around PrP running the least I want to play their game. But to each their own.

These sentences don't answer @EmmahSue's question.

Not all I type here is meant to answer ES' questions!

Then you're doing it wrong.

[Seraphim73]

@EmmahSue
As someone who likes to keep a little more control over things when he Staffs, and who always checks with Staff before running something that could shift a balance of power on the game (something more than 'random fight with baddies' -- although I usually check before running my -first- one of them on a game too)... I think that the question should -actually- come down to how much impact do you intend your scene to have on the game's theme/status quo?

It's less about the player to me (although there are definitely some players I trust more than others when I'm a Staffer, just because they've proven they can play within a theme) and more about how big a bang they want to make. If the major impact is just on the characters involved, then I have no problems with players running whatever they want without coming to Staff at all. If the major impact is on a faction as a whole, or the couple upset some balance of power that Staff has created, then I think it should definitely be run by Staff.

I say this knowing that I am the type who holds on too tightly to theme (whether I'm Staff or a player) and gets frustrated when people -don't- check in before running something, and that something ends up disrupting Staff plans or not fitting in with established theme because the plot-runner didn't check with Staff first.

[Pyrephox]

I don't ever recall staff coming down on me for running a PrP...admittedly, some times, it's probably because I just didn't say I was running a PrP, but rather it was just Stuff That Happened. But I think another big part of it is that I usually only ask anything for/about it if pushed to by other players. I rarely seek XP or other rewards for running Random Things - I'm running them because I'm bored and I want to. And I try to make sure that they're not 'and now you PCs get THESE resources', as well. Although sometimes that's rather stifling - I'm a big believer in PCs picking up random bits of trophies and artifacts that later turn out to be plot hooks in and of themselves, but staff tends to be so very twitchy about such things that I don't even bother, typically.

[Arkandel]

@Pyrephox said in Finding roleplay:

I don't ever recall staff coming down on me for running a PrP...

It only ever happened once to me, but it was epic.

The Babylonian nazi gold plot on HM - I don't often remember things that happened years ago but that one stands out.

[saosmash]

As a staffer, I generally delight in players running plots because it means a plot is happening on my game and I don't have to run it/can maybe even play my PC in it.

???