Posts made by AlexRaymond

@Bobotron said in Savior of the Universe: Flash AhhhhAAA!:

@AlexRaymond
Don't do multiple planets.

This works, I haven't done anything by way of writing ideas down or theme towards multiple planets or even the celestial bodies/dwarf planets asteroid belt thing (though this thought does linger in my mind).

I'm still chewing on @Collective's counter earth orbit idea. I keep pondering pros/cons and how it fits to sci-fi mu*.

My main con for this is proximity to earth, which lends itself more to small group campaign style play. IE; stop the launch of the invasion force, stop the meteor, the race to earth cause Ming sent assassins. It has a lot of fun potential, but seems bent towards smaller group because if you did that stuff with a mu* of 15 or more players, the half that didn't get to participate would be up in arms about not getting plot.

However, its sitting more in my mind for the pros. This close makes it an eminent danger more than anything further out (Mars/asteroid belt, any other planet in the system) in the modern mind. Easier to have new characters that show up. With a planet that is further out, rockets landing on Mongo seems less likely a regular occurrence. Makes it easy to have both sides utilizing near orbit to planetary orbit ships for measures/counter measures which could include allowing the new group to be 'shot' down and surviving as an introduction to play occasionally. Could be more atmospheric level fighting with 'space ships' without going into space travel itself. And would still keep focus on the feudal state on the planet itself as the majority of focus I think.

And anything considered so far is retained; wormhole or asteroid belt would take reworking some of the ideas.

@Collective said in Savior of the Universe: Flash AhhhhAAA!:

Fair enough!

I like the 'parallel dimension'/wormhole stuff myself. Or take a page from Marvel (or, God(s) help us, Gor) and have Mongo as a rouge planet that settles into a 'counter-earth' orbit.

On the wormhole/parallel dimension spectrum, are you still thinking one planet will suffice or multiple planets?

Are space ships and space travel an appeal to potential players? Only asking as that's my line of reasoning for objects in the asteroid belt (that and at some points, the planet Mongo/Ming is stopped just beyond that region in the comics). Even in the Movie, Princess Aura has a rocket ship when she takes Flash from Ming's City to Arboria. Are they just background or would players want space travel and potential ship to ship conflict?

Counter Earth Orbit: Very interesting but this changes a lot of dynamics, solely on the idea that the travel distance between the rogue planet and earth isn't that far; a ship launches counter to earths revolution around the sun, wouldn't take more than 6 months to hit Mongo and vice verse (real math/science not included). We'd either need to make ships travel faster so it takes less time, or ponder more the level of interaction between Mongo and Earth. I get that Earth is pretty important in Defenders of the Earth, and it is utilized a little in middle runs (late 40s-50s). Sort of makes it a Battlefront: Earth's Orbit, more combat oriented war style game with more necessary code with more involved staff to keep tabs on the battlefront and battles. Doesn't change what little I've scratched at the surface of some theme of a solitary planet, just needs more consideration than keeping distance between Earth and Mongo and focusing emphasis on play on Mongo.

I like single planet for the very feudal feel of it, but I like multiple locations and it can have a feudal feel (Dune, Star Wars, you name it). I am good with wormhole/pocket dimension, gives it more sci-fi/sci-fantasy cross over, I like the potential of asteroid belt because lends to more sci-fi than fantasy. The asteroid belt gives a little more credit to things like random pirate planet showing up or introduction of another 'world' as play continues.

Edit: I meant to be brief, but still a few paragraphs there, sorry about wordy responses.

@Collective said in Savior of the Universe: Flash AhhhhAAA!:

Note that this is absolutely not designed to be a damper on your enthusiasm, but if you are assigning values to the various cultures they didn't have in the source material and moving them off Mongo to a unique setting of asteroids (with internal or external atmospheres and biospheres), why are you doing Flash Gordon? And are you still doing it?

At what point do you wander into 'unique theme' territory?

No damper at all, I'm not gung ho, full speed. It is something I think would be fun. Criticism is quite welcome, I would know early if I was simply wasting my time. And again, I'd prefer a collaborative effort to develop together, but limited return. One vote of interest in helping. I'm slowly rolling along with solo interest and no light at the end of the tunnel, I don't even know if I'm in the tunnel.

I think before its looked at as 'unique theme', the core that is Flash Gordon, and what makes it Flash, is bares looking at.

1. Rocket ships, ray guns, modern industrial/atomic age progressive technology (like steampunk has Victorian rocket ships that go to the moon, Jules Verne, but 30s-50s era).

2. Tyrant overlord, highly feudal L&L society.

3. Exotic locations, peoples, beasts; a bend on anthro-species (lion men, hawk men, shark men, lizard men, so on, etc.), typical fantasy like beasts (dragons, land worms, harpy bats, mostly dinosaur and dragon like stuff), rigid environs that technology allows survival (aqua lung to give humans ability to breath water, invisible barrier suits to live in the snow, men wearing asbestos suits to live in fire or near lava).

Are individual planets unique to Flash Gordon? No. Aside from the 1980 Movie, which exists within a black hole/pocket dimension, and they fly through open weird space to get to the various planets, many more modern versions utilize the wormhole theory to place it in another solar system or galaxy with multiple planets. The common similarity is Ming is overlord of feudal states, the humans help them unite and rebel.

Have I changed the races from the most common in the comics and movies? No. Giving them culture is just not done so much. A Shark Man or Gorilla Man is usually the enemy because they look like hulks, have big scary teeth and no one wants to fight that in hand to hand combat. I have started giving them cultural names, but humans still call them Hawk Men or Lion Men because, human and lazy.

Does Mongo come near earth? Yes, the original series and many have had it as a rogue planet that drifts into our Solar System. Earlier versions never got into the why of this, as most readers wanted the weekly action serial of adventure and didn't think too long and hard as to why? Later versions through in typical alien invasion stuff, need earth's resources, sometimes Mongo is too dead and he wants the entire planet.

Is any of this right, or does it drift too far from 'core' Flash? I do not honestly know, those who enjoy Flash all have a different preference, and know different versions. Should I decide alone what is right and wrong, probably not. It bares open discussion certainly, but until I have open discussion, I'm limited to occasional feedback in this thread. Which is very much welcome.

Edit: Why am I doing it? I enjoy space action adventure, sci-fi, fantasy, and even some L&L politics. Flash has all of this and people are familiar enough to understand its lots of crazy action, where you fire ray guns or lasers, escape from big monsters, have hectic chases on weird things like snowbirds or air sleds or even rocket ships maybe.

So, I'm sitting here doing my now regular weekend thing, adding theme content to the current wiki to develop the regions of Mongo and give the culture a little more life (beyond mustache and goatee-always bad guys and pretty people mostly the good guys).

The whole planet makes it easy to get around, visit other regions, consistent with the majority of the comic strips, most of the serials and movies even.

But then my mind wanders. The black hole concept from /the/ movie, the one most people are familiar with and possible have seen, was a little fetched, but as a wormhole to another part of space has been used sometimes and plausible sci-fi.

That aside, my fingers and the internet reading and research has fallen on the main asteroid belt of our solar system. While I'm mostly talking to myself, throwing my voice to the void, I figure someone may listen and have advice or become interested along the way. So ...

What if instead of a planet, the larger objects of the asteroid belt where various 'kingdoms' of Mongo, with Ming sitting on Ceres or possibly one slightly larger such object?

Space travel keeps enough distance from earth, thus focusing the area of play amongst the large orbital like kingdoms in the belt, but opens up for space rockets/ships. Overall from our perspective, the planetoids and bodies are infinitesimally small (the total mass of the objects in the belt - 5% of the moon's mass), but looking at surface area, Ceres is roughly 1/3 the land mass of China. Could make standard time travels, 1-2 days between orbital bodies and such, or jumps between bodies of a day or two to string out more distance between big bodies.

Thoughts, not quite pros/cons but a list:

One Planet: easier to get around, can have larger scale conflict and battles between groups, but is it any different than picking a random planet, and calling it a space game without much space involved other than sci-fi stuff like mad science, ray guns, etc.

Asteroid Belt: Controlled areas of play, rocket ships are a big part of the picture, harder for the localized combat such as Tree Men vs Ape Men (harder but manageable, some atomic/space guild/sect helped terraform the larger bodies, both species live on one large object).

Moving forward, Open D6 Space as the underlying system.

Some modifications to better suit theme.

Metaphysics (space magic/super science/the force) being primitive magic instead, innate to some of the more primitive races. There were hints of underlying magic (Queen Aura and the Blue Clad Magic Men, etc), this will give that to a few of the various races. Innate to race.

Cybernetics wasn't really a thing, this will be replaced with Super Science gadgetry of some sort. The closest example some might be familiar with is the mind control ring Ming uses in the 80s movie (Flash, Ahhhahhhh! - Brain Blessed screams "Dive!!!!").

I know many Star Wars games utilized a coded economy for small arms, weapons and such, but this takes a lot more maintenance with a fully functioning economy to control it and to this day still seems to get out of control. I prefer the resources dice pool, to see if someone has or doesn't have a certain weapon/armor at a given time. Half the fun is being without a weapon and surviving on instinct and athleticism alone.

With the super science gadgetry, players can pay for better permanent things. While a certain race might have Flight as an innate ability (but calculated in point costs), a human might get jump boots to go Peter Quill on everyone. Sure sometimes it might get confiscated, but he always finds them again and is using them at some point. That's the aim of changing cybernetics into gadgetry, it represents that and gives a point cost to a permanent affect for a given character.

Just something to chew on, criticism is welcome as always. Going to look at throwing a few space coins at some shell to start some code I think. Work slowly side by side, a few things to wiki and theme development, a few things to code

No pros or cons I have proceeded to plant the wheat. I've spent a couple hours giving a slight overview to Arboria, Magnetic Mountains (Ming's area), and the area that was Flash's Kingdom in the comics but is affectionately called New Angeles. Keeping some elements but developing more depth to them.

This leads to thoughts on system. Not ready to fully decide on one so much as considering things being stated for balance later. My pref for a sci fi setting is going to lean towers Open D6; versatile, has worked for decades in Star Wars games. The attribute+skill=dice pool is well known enough that most understand the basics. Though totaling dice vs standard target number instead of each die rolling against a target seems better and makes standard tasks easier to succeed at as one raises the skills. It's simple enough that most potential players, unfamiliar with the system, could get going in their own plots fairy easily.

Edit: Collaborators still welcome. At this stage, creative writers interested in developing theme. Not cutting and pasting from other sites, but developing based on inspiration from classic Flash into something wholly breathing and functioning from our own modern perspective. Ideally, a group of individuals that could divide up the content by area and possible be faction heads down the road.

Wanted to say that and transition into ...

I'm going to slowly give each major region a development treatment; write some in depth portions for history and culture as relevant to the game. But I do have a question for anyone reading.

Changing of the names to give it a true cultural feel. That is, the Tree Men works in the comics, but seems to be short from a cultural standpoint. I think each culture or peoples deserve this cosmetic attention. Instead of Ape Men or Shark Men, they wouldn't use that reference. it would tie into origins, how they came to the planet, etc.

From my standpoint, the humans still use those names for easy reference, highlighting cultural difference. They still call 'wingedracepeople' the Hawkmen, whether they like it or not.

Just pitching it for pros or cons. Then I'll get to working on cultures and come back with questions or seek criticisms once those are done for people to read over.

@Cupcake said in Savior of the Universe: Flash AhhhhAAA!:

Did anyone perchance watch the extremely unfortunate version that aired on Syfy?

I couldn't bring myself to watch it. Like half their productions it seems altered for budget rather than a design decision. Lion Men weren't lion men, just scraggly hair men; and not like extras from the Dothraka in Game of Thrones, like clean cut neighbors of the producer with extra hair product in their hair to look 'scraggly'. The Hawkmen didn't have wings? A fair number of British series make these mixes in production but it seems to work; I enjoyed the 8 part Sinbad series, I enjoyed Merlin despite drastic story deviance. SyFy just seems to flop half the time and this series just looked like a flop.

@Collective Sorry didn't mean to imply you did, just a few here and elsewhere recall Defenders, namely Mandrake. Don't want to imply that possibility.

And Gordon shot but whereabots unknown is good. Creates a fun edge I think for play. Going to run with it ... fake news blurb

Exactly why a collaboration would be better than me trying to solo this!

The secondary thought to pre-Flash was post overthrow of Ming somehow. But what @collective just said, that’s a brilliant idea.

Fudging is fine, really it's Flash Gordon, the only canon really is atomic space age feudalism; I keep saying feudal, lost more recent strips has them wearing the outfits from Prince Valiant it seems, but it works with the setting. There would need to be regardless to make it work, but the near earth orbit of Mongo to include room for Humans and human potential is great.

And agreed @Arkandel , I am opposed to taking FCs in an FC light canon, and having them played, by friends or otherwise. I don’t want to recreate Flash and his stories, I don’t want to ever railroad or steal light from the players. I want them to shine, to be the FCs. This was my lean towards pre-flash, it could avoid the canon all together, the players could make the FCs of the Mu*, and defeat or be defeated by Ming. But @collective hit something I missed, the human interaction is a big key element that can’t be missed.

I like more heroes from earth stepping up, but I’m not looking for Mandrake or Phantom, or a King’s characters crossover (Defenders). Indie and Sam Spade are great, even a Dick Tracy tie in would be good, most probably don’t (?) realize the level of space tie in that came later in his run, first wife a moon person, his granddaughter Honeymoon being part alien (moon people). This level of crossover seems good for the many multi-verse/genre/comic cross-over places and a core group of people with this level of interest.

I like Flash taking the raygun, clean and simple, he failed, Ming is still kicking it, still interested in taking over earth, to destroy it, spare a few amusements for the collection, move on. Mongo has settled into an orbit somewhere near the asteroid belt. The time period is moved up to say mid 50s, but some tech has been reversed, earth can send up rockets, but it's costly. There is no fighting on Mongo Tuesday, dancing at the club back in Manhattan on Friday. Not opposed to an Earth location being available, just trying to keep it from earth social play.

What if, Flash overthrew Ming once, returned to Earth, learned of Ming’s return. Launched a mission and established a base for Humans to try and oppose (or somesuch). Or, basically a human realm on Mongo, any human worthy of the program to help the cause or the planet is launched to it, spends a year or two in space, and then joins the cause planetside? They would need all sorts of able bodies, scientists, fighters, historians, laborers, etc.; just a human with some noteworthy profession. Players could opt in as a spin off of the others like Mandrake or Dick Tracy? And have reason to be there, or choose a local for some exotic flavor. The earth side would be more military base 50s era than feudal kingdom, would need military leader types too.

Thoughts ..

The basis of Flash Gordon: Three humans become embroiled in a large scale war of succession on planet Mongo. The realms and individuals live a in a highly feudal, highly advanced, but an merciless overload has arisen to control this populace using fear, terror and more technology. One realm stands in rebellion, the humans side with this cause due to their spirit of freedom. 80 years of comics, spin-offs, series, movies proceed in telling this, retailing this, continuing this. Even now Ming sometimes is in power, and sometimes the good guys are in charge, it goes back and forth. They’ve gone on to explore the Universe, returned to Earth, defended Earth from Ming, returned to Mongo and mostly stay embroiled in Mongo politics (or feudalism).

Key Elements (should be part of any Mu* based on Flash Gordon):
Atomic Age Technology: Ray guns, thought projectors, robotics, tractor sleds, sky sleds, frictionless monorails, atomics and radium are primary sources of energy.
Action: Each panel is literally the conclusion of last weeks action with a slight break then the next threat emerges in the final panels, rinse repeat. This is centered around the conflict between Ming/Ming Loyalists and Rebels mostly, sometimes Ming is exchanged for Alien threat de jour. This ranges from rescuing allies, fighting off infiltrators, being attacked by troops, running from threats, escaping some trap or another, and facing the savage world of scary monsters and plants and environments between all the beautiful high tech cities.
Feudalism: There is a large focus on the kings and queens and disputes. From personal vendetta to the battle of heroes (ie when two troops meet, its expected the big heavies will have a personal fight at some point before or during the battle) it is the necessity for the action itself.
Exotics: From various races to plants to the background, its not just flat plans, bland streets.

What I think would work as a basis for the theme:
It is Pre-Flash era on the planet Mongo. Ming is a tyrant, and either he took over Mongo from beyond, or rose to power from within. Not so important as he controls the planet. It is a rogue planet floating through space, most of the exotics are just various species and amusements he has picked up along the way. Some of the cultures thrive and flourish, and have done so for who knows how long, enough to be established culturally in their own realms/kingdoms. Others are primitive and stay that way Ape Men, Shark Men, Dwarves, Giants. The various dragons and beasts were curiosities but helps keep the people focused in cities for control, but also makes the more nomadic/primitive people tougher for surviving these hostilities.

The focus of play:
Players are the active agents of either Loyalists or Rebellion. They actively take on missions against the other side with a wide range of objects (hit targets/locations, sabotage, disrupt society, kidnap/hostage/rescue, raid, attack locations or groups, take prisoners, gather intel). Routinely this involves traveling through primitive lands, stealthly, using survival skills and dealing with the ‘natural’ threats of the planet. Being close to the heels of each other and chasing or giving chase through these exotic locals is part of these missions, from chases or dog fights in air sleds, to dealing with dinosaur like predators in intriguing forests. Atomic Sci Fi (Mad Science) is a part of this, from disrupting power sources, to new devices to divert attention or dismantle tech threats to simply increasing efficiency in the realms themselves.

Area of play:
I think, and this may be too ambitious (the focus might be as well), the five or six major realms should be open and allow for Loyalists/Rebels to join in. They can participate in local politics and swaying their region more towards rebellion or Ming, all while serving as agents for the totality of the Rebellion, maybe led by Prince Barin, or Ming and his allies and conducting missions as noted in the focus of play. Just the exotics of each location offers various appeal to various players and each comes with its own set of unique challenges as well as different backdrops for the potential missions and adventures the players can have within the focus of play.

That’s me, I could be off if that would garner interest from others, I could be missing points to ponder. But settling focus/area would be a good lead into the areas and developing them beyond the comics or movies even, a lot of that dependent on establishing a canon.

@Ghost
There are a couple sources of information out there. The Flash Wiki (http://flashgordon.wikia.com/wiki/Flash_Gordon_Wiki) has lots of topics covered, but very limited information, whereas old Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_Gordon) has a few topics with lots of information and it includes separation between Raymond's version, and other versions. The Flash Wiki is lacking this, I think it went up around the time of the Sci Fi Chan series, and was never touched again. The comic strip still runs (http://flashgordon.com/), and their site contains the 1996 run through present (still weekly).

If I could find more information, would be good to cut and paste. I don't think its out there. Plus what @Ataru indicated. Its interesting enough that it can be played around with quite a lot.

In fact that is more spot on what I was thinking. There are a few basics that carry over throughout the genre of Flash.

Mongo is a feudal realm of mixed technology, primitive to highly advanced (atomic retro advanced). The realms are all ruled by Kings/Queens. The main realms are: Arboria (Prince Barin, Timothy Dalton and Richard O'Brien), Sky City (Hawkmen, Brian Blessed), Nascent City or Ming's City and Palace, and at least two other big ones not in most movies, Frigia the snow realm, and the Land of the Lion men.

I think they can be expanded; take the Lion Men, they just live in tents and fly Sky Gyro aircraft things originally. In the later run (Jeff, on the comic strip website), they have bigger structures and more underground areas where the resistance gathers safely.

There is a bit of work to bring it up to date (ideologically, but keeping atomic retro sci fi feel), and a lot of realms to explore. The basics are always there, mentioned above, but there is so much more room. They always show other races on the planet from various lizard men to saurens (dinosaur features ones), and other odd aliens as background. Almost a determination process, where a few individuals would be better to make, vote, approve adding something versus one persons view of what this could be, and in realizing the depth of work to make it breathing, living, cohesive is what led me to advertise on the boards here.

An individual would be swamped, but a few individuals taking an area each. Working a little, getting feed back, seeing the other areas and balancing it out as they go, would do wonders to complete the setting.

And at the heart, it is settling on exactly the focus of play on a regular basis. An arc to overthrow Ming is good, but been done, and will end sooner than it began, but some system of sustainable play would be good (ie, start with Ming, but overthrow and move into feudal rule and who actually rules the planet). All things group worthy.

Maybe I'll just put thoughts up here for input and write to the wiki as decisions or some consensus comes up. I have ideas that would be fun for updating each realm, but its limited to my thoughts and as already scene, everyone has a different take on Flash; from Defenders of Earth to the Sam Jones movie.

Flash's Theme

Vultan's Theme (Attack of the Hawkmen)

The Kiss

Arboria (Planet of the Tree Men)

Flash Gordon Intro (96 Series)

@fatefan Potential is good. Then I am not the little red rooster (hen), because I'd look at the wheat field and decide to go see what I could microwave instead.

I can get a wikidot forum setup, you could check in there and see if or how you might like to contribute. If that could work, drop me a message there (ARaymond1934). Quick link to get to my wikidot profile is the history on: the wiki. Not much there, just a scratch on the surface; like a small layer of ice on top of the ocean, and just a scratch on that ice to realize its a deep ocean under the surface.

Anyone else interested can contact there too (or chat here, or use the e-mail provided). If the forums there work for all interested, I can easily give access to help get the project moving more at least.

@ThatGuyThere If it moves forward from what little has been touched on it, I'll be sure to post some updates. Hopefully the sort that at least will continue the interest to play.

@Bobotron Defenders would be fun, but a group of friends could probably OTT that group endlessly on any of the multi-genre crossover comic places too.

I'm looking at Mongo itself and the people there; from the people of Frigia to Gundar and the desert tribes; from King Jugrid and the Lion Men to Queen Undina and the people under the Sea of Mystery. Battles against hawk men, shark men, ape men, snow giants, myriad dragons, terra worms, Ming loyalists, the dark dimension.

Not to set any of that. Just inspiration, room to update.

More Alex Raymond era Mongo. Though Mandrake would be pretty awesome and more people may be familiar with Phantom.

I am looking for individuals with an interest in developing theme and opening a Flash Gordon Mu*. All equal co-staff along with myself. Some primary direction, either pre Gordon influence on Mongo or post overthrow of the tyrant. Focus on the various peoples of the planet Mongo and inter relationships from alliances to open war far. Retro Sci-Fi a must! Ray guns and space ships that look like pneumatic tubes with needle noses, mingled with savage world primitives from Ape Men to dragons and flying pterodactyls.

Interest in determining a good system, potentially coding if one likes, theme developers, plot runners, story tellers, and all that. All these things I could do myself given enough time, but I just have a preference to find good contributors and staff now willing to make this a good group project. And I'm lazy at my age, I'd prefer to bounce ideas around, get excited off the creations and contributions of others, and enjoy an environment of creative feedback with constructive criticism.

Its a good sci-fi environment with unlimited potential for action, it ranges from PvE to PvP amongst the kingdoms with even a good mix of L&L for those who wish the social life while war rages across the planet.

There is a lot of potential here, in a setting developed, re-developed, visualized and re-envisioned for over 70 decades that is still going strong as a weekly strip; ie there is a ton of room to play and update it to work in a Mu* setting, taking good elements already there, adding our own as needed.

A good handful of collaborators, five or six of us, could make a vibrant active place with potential for fun on many levels; whereas in the hands of one seems destined to fail. One can do it, but a tyrant does not a game make; ie Ming the Merciless.