Posts made by il-volpe

@crayon said:

The reason we persist in the weekly updates is

Yep.

The same reasoning would hold true of me posting the new RP logs and character pages from my game's wiki into my game's advert here every week.

I predict that if I did that, it would annoy a significant portion of the readership here. I predict that they would then proceed to say mean things to me.

Weighing the harm of "Wah, something pops up in my unread feed" against the benefit of letting people who might be interested on a selective basis

So what? I am not trying to argue with you about whether it's worth it for you to do things that people find obnoxious. The fact that they find them obnoxious and yet you three persist in doing them is the reason for the reaction you've gotten. That's not bullying, see, it's just what happens when somebody asks you not to do something that they find irritating and you decide to ignore said request. It'd be different if weekly bumps of ads were customary here.

@Lithium -- I think @Thenomain was being snarky about liking the updates? It is like an RSS feed. Except one sets what's on one's RSS, strangers don't wander up and stick their adverts on it unasked.

It doesn't bother me; I ignored this thread for four months without difficulty, but I can see why it would bug some folks.

@Jaunt said:

You continue to make assertions without even taking a look around the OR website.

http://optionalrealities.com/partnership-criteria/

Since this is not the part of your website that I (or anyone, so far as I've noticed) is concerned with you changing, it is hardly surprising that when you say you've changed the site based on feedback from here, we don't notice it.

You'd rather just speak on everyone's behalf and try to bully us off your site. Not gonna happen.

I am not Lithium. I have not asked you to leave. I've asked you to conform to certain community standards. I have tried to explain what they are, and why your violations of them are obnoxious. You've refused, essentially stating that there's no rule enforcing those standards, and in spite of being told about them you don't see them as a requirement for being welcomed into this community. Instead, because you're not welcomed, you claim to be bullied.

Allegorical Play:

MSB People: "Ducks. This duck, that duck, I love ducks, that duck over there is diseased, how do you heal a sick duck, fuck that duck."

OR People (wandering in the open door): "Check out our new poultry community!"

MSB People: "Cool, can we have a duck show?"

OR People: "No, we only do chickens."

MSB: "Then call it a chicken community, or include ducks."

OR People: "NO! Yes! Maybe! Next week! Anyway, you shouldn't be bitching, anybody who likes ducks should be totally interested in what we have to say about chickens."

MSB: "Largely, we're not."

OR People: "You're lying! Lots of you are into chickens!"

MSB: "...?"

MSB: "So, ducks. Ducks, ducks, ducks."

OR People: "CHECK OUT OUR POULTRY CLUB."

OR People: "CHECK OUT OUR POULTRY CLUB."

OR People: "CHECK OUT OUR POULTRY CLUB."

MSB: "We heard you the first time. Would you mind not calling your chicken club a poultry club, as it's misleading. Also, would you mind yelling "CHECK OUT OUR CHICKEN CLUB" less often?"

OR People: "I do what I want! You're just bullies! I won't give in to the terrorists!"

@Alzie Yeah.

When nWoD came out I said, "FUCK YOU, WW, and your little FROG TOOO!!!" and other such utterances, and never bought it. oWoD, well, multi-sphere MUs ran into problems because the games ("spheres") had compatibility issues.

I did have a lotta fun playing various WoD games tabletop.

@icanbeyourmuse Properly documenting WoD (or whatever) so that a person can play without having the sourcebooks/being very familiar with them would be a real copyright violation, republishing the system. Even if you don't quote it, but paraphrase it entirely, it's an IP issue. Original systems, or FS3, being made for the MU in question or for MUs in general and licensed for sharing, no such problem.

I'm all for original, simple systems. Better yet, FS3-like adaptable can-be-used-for-most-any-theme sort of things that are easy for us crappy coders to set up. And I'd certainly rather have a simple system that's quick and easy. I love complicated mechanics in table-top games, but they're boring and unfun on MUs.

@Thenomain said:

Well I don't think @crayon claims to be a Soapbox authority,

Oh, he was claiming that there's more overlap than 'people' (meaning, I presume, the membership of MUSB who've commented) realise, which implies that he knows more about what commenters here play than you or I do.

Or possibly he means that more people on OR play MUSHes than we realize. This just occurred to me, and concluding that this means there's more overlap on Soapbox than we realize is the sort of logic error that seems to be popular.

Psuedo-historical + some supernatural NPC forces early 18th century Caribbean, ala' Pirates of the Caribbean.

Sci-fi based on David Brinn's Uplift Wars series.

Urban-fantasy based on Lev Grossman's The Magicians series.

@Thenomain

My point is that the expertise that @crayon needs to have the authority to make claims about the overlap between the two communities would include expertise about this community, and cray-cray hasn't got that.

@Jaunt said:

We're not some sort of threat, or invading force. We've answered folks' questions, responded to their concerns, and made changes to our site based on the actual useful feedback that we've received.

You've made changes? Where?

You've responded to people's concerns? When? Please exclude all instances where you're telling them that they're wrong to be bothered.

Honestly, hilarity. You're not an invasive force, but you're aggressively telling @Lithium that you're gonna squat here, and demanding that I prove the non-existence of people who appreciate your behavior but happen to be silent about it.

And then, right after @Lithium and myself comment about the unwanted nature of the weekly updates, here's @crayon with another one! Whee!

@crayon says:

There is a lot more overlap here than the majority are perceiving.

Yet you are the newcomer to the community.

Communities aren't static things, and it's possible at any point that some of the discussion happening on OR might appeal to people here that it didn't a week ago.

Hint: The current active community members are probably not following your links, or if they are, it is not for the reason you hope.

Members of this community who are interested in OR will go to it without your prompting, now that you've got the advert up at all.

Hint: Yes, we can ignore this thread. But no, we cannot make it stop appearing on our feed as new material. NOW, if there are newcomers to MUSB, they will probably look at every section of the board. They will see your ad until enough new ads are posted that your ad is pushed down onto the second page. Then, they will visit OR if they are interested.

When you post your updates weekly, forcing a reminder your existence into everyone's 'unread posts' page, some folks find it annoying. It violates a standard of internet forum etiquette. What you do, to be polite, is wait until the ad gets pushed back to page two, and then come up with some excuse (in this case, "we have new content!" is sensible) to post on it and get it back to the first page. One calls this giving the post a "bump". Doing it every week is not cool.

@Sparks said:

You could argue that there are some cultural things that coalesce around specific server lines,

Just so. This happens, but a MUSH is a MUSH because it's using the MUSH code.

Now, here, we have this thread because on the Optional Realities/Project Redshift we've got @crayon redefining a MUSH to mean, not a game that uses the MUSH codebase, but any game, regardless of codebase, which displays cultural standards that he associates with MUSHes that follow cultural and code-use standards that are highly unusual for MUSHes.

I tried to get this family to pay me to stand outside their window smokin' cigarettes and offering my advice about anything they happened to be doing. How much should I charge for this service?

Oh, so it is for us.

If we'd only just be more keen to participate in communities that don't serve our interests well.

2/10 = 1/5. 1/5 != 1/2.

I know squat about 7th Sea, but I figured if I made a pirates game, it'd be 'set' on Tortuga, with ship-vehicles that you could sail about on a biggish (but far from vast) 'ocean' grid, with a few set points of interest and some non-fixed ones -- eg, your playgroup (ship) sails to a TP room and calls it Burma for a while.

@Thenomain said:

I'm also willing to believe that some of their reaction to the lashback on this is "It's not for you", for the same reason.

The mysterious bit is, given that it is not for us, why the fuck is it still here? I can see not removing the thread, but keeping it alive with the links to their new articles is off.

Sure, our community would ignore or mock posts about RPI MUDs on an exactly equal basis with anything else that gets posted that just isn't largely what the membership is into, so RPI MUDders are 'welcome' here, but it takes a certain something to put an advert for a 'dirt bike club' on during the Tour de France and say, "Noo, it's a motorcycle club," and "the ad wasn't for you," to the BMX and mountain bike guys who show up.

@Derp said:
'Well, in light of the larger criteria, there are certain terms and conditions which exclude you from being eligible from the thing we said you were eligible for on the tin, sorry about that.'

I'm afraid I missed the 'sorry about that', and just saw, 'And this should not piss you off, why can't you understand that?'

@Jaunt It is outright deceptive in the context of advertising outside of the RPI community.

@silentsophia No surprise there. I didn't mean to say that I recommend this or that it's likely to work well for a typical MU or go over well with a lot of players. It's just an idea that I like.

I like the idea of caps (if you've got to have 'em, I'm not a fan really) being determined by a character's IC age.

This would be all the better on a timeskip game like @Coin and I were talking about elsethread -- if timejump is enough to put all the characters into a new age-class, it would have this 'allowing newbies to catch up' effect but in a seamless-seeming organic-ish way, and give players a reason to look forward to the timeskip eagerly even though it'd mean their PCs stop being beautiful 22 year olds...

@Jaunt said:

Overall, I think that you've made some good points that would be super valid -- if they weren't based on wrong assumptions that you've made, which may or may not stem from you being overly suspicious

Oh, I think if you read back you will find that most of the 'wrong assumptions' I have made are things that other readers also feel you or other OR representatives have actively implied.

Either that or you've assumed that I've made a certain assumption, which is what my repetition of

I think that you're being over-sensitive in continually assuming that we're out to look down on you. We're not.

was about.

Actually, I only attribute one suspicion, that you've purposely (if perhaps not entirely consciously) misled people into believing that it's a community dedicated to all MUs* when it's not because that might get you some more users and convert 'em to the games you like, to me being a suspicious bastard. Truth is I'm a tediously patient guy and largely think well of people.