MU Soapbox

    • Register
    • Login
    • Search
    • Categories
    • Recent
    • Tags
    • Popular
    • Users
    • Groups
    • Muxify
    • Mustard
    1. Home
    2. Packrat
    3. Posts
    P
    • Profile
    • Following 0
    • Followers 2
    • Topics 5
    • Posts 580
    • Best 240
    • Controversial 0
    • Groups 0

    Posts made by Packrat

    • RE: Space Lords and Ladies

      It was three years ago and an awful lot happened on that game which I disagreed with, I mean I did quit staff and have no intention of repeating much of what happened on Star Crusade, so I am just not going to go into a step by step rebuttal of that though I do not feel your account is entirely accurate.

      On a more positive note (or negative?) I am definitely not going to make a Fading Suns game, whilst it is a great setting Fading Suns lead to a ton of impositions which I am not a fan of and frankly I want things to be more sci-fi and less medieval. I have the broad brushes of an original theme already sorted out, the framework for the economy and social system, and will be setting up a server/trying to remember if I can code in the last week of April (since necessary bits for my computer build got delayed and so I am stuck without a real machine).

      For a start it is one hell of a lot easier to put together economics/military stuff when you do not need to take into account medieval slaves in salt mines compared to space robot stock exchanges and knife wielding conscripts vs anti grav laser gunships.

      posted in Mildly Constructive
      P
      Packrat
    • RE: Space Lords and Ladies

      @deadculture said:

      @Packrat So the guy had amazingly high Psyche and never used it. Hahahaha. What a fucking waste.

      I just checked, he had Operant level Pyche with a score of 7, plus two careers in Thought Police for the +2 bonus, he had something like a 15 goal for emotion control and never used it.

      On the other subject - the most memorable thing that I ever did on a MU* was doom the world, it was on Vargo, does anyone who played there remember the famine, the evil forests of thorns and the monsters/child eating ogres that started appearing? That was all the fault of my character after she murdered a saint. She tried to become a pacifist after he persuaded her to give up violence, then Antimonist (demon worshipper) bandits deliberately attacked the pacifist commune she had gone to live at, at which point she failed at pacifism and murdered them.

      Then she rode (badly injured, fighting multiple people without armour in Fading Suns is terrifyingly dangerous!) to confront the saint about how he was wrong and pacifism did not work, the argument got heated, she stabbed him in the mouth and murdered him. This broke some kind of metaphysical seal that prevented the Dark/The Evil from manifesting fully and was basically the cause of everything that went wrong from that point on.

      posted in Mildly Constructive
      P
      Packrat
    • RE: Space Lords and Ladies

      @deadculture said:

      @Packrat She must have thrown a fit after a pretender baron went to Crow's Landing and started killing all the Kurgans inside. Her daughter was half-Kurgan, though, so that could've been passed along to the Curia quite easily. The fact she was half way to being a Kurgan vassal doesn't surprise me.

      Out of curiosity, who was the Imperial Eye agent who found out about her? Was it Custodius' alt?

      It was Anselm I think? Who was definitely not Custodius, he was a Thana who played at being a useless dilettante but actually had truly terrifying mind reading powers that he completely failed to exploit, essentially making the facade the reality.

      Crows Landing did cause her to have issues, as did that one baron with the gigantic cannon who held war crimes parties where he shelled random villages.

      posted in Mildly Constructive
      P
      Packrat
    • RE: Space Lords and Ladies

      Well to be fair, trying to play a political/military leader on Star Crusade was ridiculously frustrating, I tried it after quitting staff and did not stick around more than maybe two months before just leaving out of the frustration of having to deal with it. If I had not had the 'benefit' of having seen behind the curtain then I could have easily seen myself assuming it was a deliberate thwarting.

      posted in Mildly Constructive
      P
      Packrat
    • RE: Space Lords and Ladies

      It sounds like she was a jerk then, presumably something I did not see due to not really interacting with her all that much and her putting on a nice face due to knowing I was staff.

      She was not so much a beneficiary of the game set up though, from what I remember she actually had potentially the worst ratio of her stuff vs Kurgan stuff of anyone given how insanely strong Tyche was down the coast and how poor her lands were. What she did do was 1) Establish diplomatic relations and constantly do everything she could to disengage militarily from the more competent/powerful Kurgans and 2) Pay them tribute, she spent almost as much on buying off the Kurgans as she did on her relatively anemic military. I definitely know that after she got the Chancellorship or whatever it was she then embezzled a shit ton of the city budget to avoid going completely bankrupt and was I think taking out loans on top of that.

      She ran into some serious issues when her more militant barons did things like actually attack the enemy and I seem to remember her doing stuff like sneaking captives back to the Kurgans to diffuse hostilities. She was half way to being a Kurgan vassal in secret but the Imperial Eye player never did anything with it despite finding all about her shenanigans.

      Needless to say Amber's player endlessly complained about how Lyov and Antonio were unfairly favored over her as well. The way Paulus/Lextius managed the economic and military stuff in general just lead to everyone believing that they were being particularly shafted by staff whilst they were unable to see how their rivals/enemies were in exactly the same shitty hole.

      posted in Mildly Constructive
      P
      Packrat
    • RE: Space Lords and Ladies

      Amber was a character on Star Crusade who...

      Well actually she was not given unfair advantages over the other County level nobles and was in many ways arguably the weakest. Certainly she was not particularly favoured or disfavoured by staff, non of whom knew who she was from prior games and none of whom were particularly friends after she did turn up.

      Remember that nobody had more than a fractional overview of what was happening on that game, people fixated on their issues or opposition without realising their rivals were generally being funked over in eight different ways themselves but dealing (or not) with it without advertising everything.

      Some people have alleged she was kind of a bitch but it was apparently a given for people to complain that everyone who was not them or their ally was unfairly favoured and/or evil on that game. I only RPed with her like four or five times but she seemed okay.

      She was markedly less prone to histrionics than most players though and was a political rival of Apollonius' character.

      I think a staff member did play one of her vassal barons but he was playing a decadent fop who was not exactly a key asset.

      posted in Mildly Constructive
      P
      Packrat
    • RE: Space Lords and Ladies

      Personally I am fairly confident of being able to avoid running a game with my pants around my ankles due to the fact that, frankly, I prefer such relationships to be in real life and text fucking is extraordinarily boring compared to the real thing.

      What I am going to need in order for the place to succeed is other people to want to staff and for them to be willing to run stuff instead of chasing after their groins. Will that work out? Who knows! Either way I am trying to cook the books by building in IC political and economic competition and coordination from the start rather than having people just be abstractly wealthy in isolation.

      posted in Mildly Constructive
      P
      Packrat
    • RE: Space Lords and Ladies

      Pretty much, everyone fixating on fucking each other happens if you managed to get a playerbase then fail to provide anything else for them to spend their time on. I mean fucking will be happening regardless but most people stick to Shangrila if that is their only goal, it turns into the primary focus only after people fail to be kept fed with Plot.

      posted in Mildly Constructive
      P
      Packrat
    • RE: Space Lords and Ladies

      So on the note of actually doing stuff, do people have thought on an RPG system to use for Space Lords & Ladies? A major criteria is that it should be something with a freely available +sheet and similar code for, or something that I can fairly easily bodge from an existing coded system.

      I do still have access to Star Crusade and its codebase and am pretty sure I would get permission to steal parts, but am fairly sure I would not want to use it's system. I could certainly use it's +sheet and try to work out an alternative rolling mechanic.

      posted in Mildly Constructive
      P
      Packrat
    • RE: Space Lords and Ladies

      Well I am not exactly posting here a whole lot, the joys of dealing with intra family drama over Easter and being confined to a laptop.

      posted in Mildly Constructive
      P
      Packrat
    • RE: Space Lords and Ladies

      My goal at least is that the main in character aim of characters should be to impress larger Space Noble society, of which the game is only set in a small part, though it spans multiple worlds.

      Social oomph is system based to some degree but while the easiest way to gain Prestige is to spend money, the most efficient is to do Awesome Shit and also obtain fantastical loot on amazing adventures. A lot of games like this have had this weird as fuck tendency to 1) Allow some characters to be TurboNobles who have literally hundreds of times the wealth/money/influence of others, plus entire armies of NPCs as competent as a PC and 2) Massively crack down on the ability to get cool stuff or money from looting people. Eternal Crusade was especially weird that way.

      My view is that ruling a bunch of cities and having huge piles of income consistently is one thing, but if you raid the palace of the Space Elf Prince, kill a Space Elf Duke and steal a Space Elf Treasure Ship? You should absolutely be able (among the three PCs involved) steal four years worth of cash for a rich planet. Certainly not every day, also maybe five PCs started on this quest and two of them died, but rewards should potentially be huge and PCs who's 'Thing' is badassery should be the characters in setting who are the best at it.

      posted in Mildly Constructive
      P
      Packrat
    • RE: Space Lords and Ladies

      @bored said:

      @Packrat

      You're obviously TSing yellow, look at all that shit they get.

      Yellow's player is just great at creating RP and has worked hard for all of that.

      posted in Mildly Constructive
      P
      Packrat
    • RE: Space Lords and Ladies

      Witness the terrible majesty of my spreadsheet based economy system drafting!

      alt text

      posted in Mildly Constructive
      P
      Packrat
    • RE: Space Lords and Ladies

      Well nothing is going to happen in the immediate future given I am building a new PC, but as I live in the communist hell hole of Europe (Well, the UK), I get tons of leave days and carried forward a bunch from last year, along with being a the kind of sad individual who prefers paying off my mortgage early to going on holiday.

      At the moment I am hashing out the actual mechanics for an economic/social currency system but I have a week off in April, at which point I will get an actual server up and try to remember how to code. Given I was never more than mediocre at coding this will likely involve begging for code/stealing it from open code depositories.

      Overall I am going to go for something original theme rather than another try at Fading Suns, that way I can try to design things to ensure people have stuff to do and get to share equal spot light time. Fading Suns is a great setting for tabletop but is rife with issues when it comes to a MU* plus, frankly, I want to stress the Space and high technology soft sci-fi/Space Opera aspects rather than the medieval aspects.

      posted in Mildly Constructive
      P
      Packrat
    • RE: Space Lords and Ladies

      I am currently thinking space nobles who are genetically engineered super people (albeit prone to issues and some 'instability'). Combined with some of them having mind machine interfaces with relatively super tech quasi living spaceships.

      Also way better tech than everyone else in general in limited quantities, though the low tech would be more like say Aliens or even the non cojoiner factions in Revelation Space, not Space Peasants.

      The Space Elves I am thinking might be really advanced androids/robots (who are sexy space elves) who are split into a bunch of factions ruling over the enslaved bulk of humanity. Are they rogue human AI? Alien robots? Who knows, they are not saying, though they do treat with Space Nobles as peers out of necessity.

      posted in Mildly Constructive
      P
      Packrat
    • RE: Space Lords and Ladies

      It is probably a terrible idea but I am tempted to actually make this thing, can anyone recommend a good MU* hosting site which is usable for idiots who have not set up a game in a decade?

      I will probably end up using Wikidot for the website given that is far easier than any of the alternatives.

      posted in Mildly Constructive
      P
      Packrat
    • RE: Space Lords and Ladies

      I am honestly thinking that I would want to focus on most/all player characters being L&L given how things inevitably end up in such scenarios and the impossibility of actually balancing alternatives, but different varieties of them.

      Ship captains would be if anything the 'purest', I can see the in character 'ideal' Space Lord/Lady not holding anything on a planet or any stations but rather holding dominion over a region to receive taxes or tribute. You might for example gain a bonus to Prestige if you do not have any static holdings, but you still need some source of wealth and resources to keep your super cool spaceship/s working. Most ships would be relatively 'normal', but Space L&L ships would be extremely advanced and quasi-sapient vessels, irreplaceable in the area the game is set, each tied to a specific individual and bloodline. If you have a Space Cruiser then it will be a terribly lethal craft able to murder conventional ships like a wolf running rampant in a pen of sheep, innately tied to you or your heirs, with it's own personality, able to repair itself from near mortal damage given sufficient supplies of crazy rare materials and able to sustain your L&L lifestyle via its ultra advanced internal manufacturies.

      Next would be L&L who rule space based holdings, orbital cities, asteroid mines, trade stations, etc. They would be intensely vulnerable to enemy space actions and thus rather 'ephemeral' but also controlling the greatest industrial strength, they are the ones who can field vast fleets of conventional starships, act as arsenals to equip planet conquering armies, build gigantic palaces or public works infrastructures.

      The 'lowest' tier would be L&L with planetary holdings, which are vulnerable to murder from orbit but extremely hard to steal/conquer, looked down upon by their space dwelling brethren, but have immense wealth due to controlling huge populations. The other L&L would ultimately have to give reasons for these to share/spend said wealth in order to sustain their own lifestyles and requirements and they would also end up being the one's providing the manpower for conventional space fleets/armies.

      posted in Mildly Constructive
      P
      Packrat
    • RE: Space Lords and Ladies

      Ignoring the random drive by insulting thing, I am certainly open to suggestions, basic idea is to have something abstracted with a few varieties of different flavour influence tokens that people will have reasons to want to trade around and seek out to achieve different goals.

      Removing Manpower as a thing then breaking down Wealth into Wealth and Industry as separate flavours of token could work, replace Slaves as the "mobile and tradeable" part with "Goods".

      Ultimately though Space Lords and Ladies should probably be more interested in rent seeking than business, actively conducting trade instead of taxing it should probably hurt one's social status (whilst potentiallying giving vast wealth )

      posted in Mildly Constructive
      P
      Packrat
    • RE: Space Lords and Ladies

      My thought with the vague outline I gave above was to have things less clearly demarcated than that – but if you are playing the Space Captain of an Imperial Space Battleship then you have... Well, a Space Battleship, you are also probably the cousin of somebody who is more traditionally a Space Countess, but you are at least allegedly trying to further the goals of the Space Emperor.

      Actual physical contact rather than minimal communication with the Space Empire is 20 years away though and Space Battleships need Space Fuel and Space Ammunition to keep going, you also probably need Space Conscripts to keep the thing crewed or to invade planets. A Space Count cannot just conscript you though – you have contacts, you have some kind of authority from the nominal superior power, you have a Space Battleship.

      The same for the person who is the Space Governor, no doubt separated from the Space Battleships quite deliberately. Nominally, people have to do what you say, you can send nastigrams about them back to the Space Emperor as well, but your direct power would be rather limited. On the other hand if you send messages to the Space Emperor about how great somebody is then that is a huge boon to them and their family and you no doubt have your own personal resources as well as the right to say, tax all interstellar trade by 15%. Maybe you also have terrifying auditors.

      So, now added, some thoughts on resources and economy to try to keep it simple and encourage people to do stuff.

      Basic resources would be:

      Manpower – Retainers, conscripts or volunteers, access to people for projects like manning factories, staffing Moon Palaces or forming military units. NOT transferable.
      Slaves– Manpower can be converted into slaves but not back again, can also be used for manning factories, staffing moon palaces or forming Janissary type military units but in a more limited manner, can also be transferred or traded freely.
      Wealth – Money, mundane manufactured goods, used for construction projects, building low tech space craft, equipping armies, hosting lavish parties.
      Rare Elements – Used to make high tech items in a starship's nano factory. A Space Noble's panoply, small spacecraft, the high tier stuff used by Space Nobles personally.

      Social resources would be:

      Prestige – How socially important you are and are expected to be in future, can be gained through extravagant spending and decadence, hosting, demonstrating Imperial Favour and holding important offices. Can be used to influence NPCs or destroy other people's social resources (either Glory or Prestige)
      Glory – How badass you are and how much you are seen to embody the ideal Space Noble, gained by fighting Space Elves, crushing revolts, winning duels or showing people up in other contests or demonstrations of skill and ability. Win the Grand Dance Off at the big party? Glory. The more Glory you have the easier it is to gain Prestige and the harder it is for people to make you lose either Glory or Prestige, it applies as a modifier to gains/losses of the previous.

      You would gain Manpower by having authority over substantial human populations, this is extremely large scale. 1 point of Manpower is enough to start raising a battalion (say 400 ish) of Space Soldiers, man a Space Frigate or convert into say a thousand random semi skilled slaves. Big military formations will have a Manpower upkeep. You are also likely to need Manpower components to big projects like establishing Space Stations or staffing Moon Palaces.
      To get a point of Manpower an interval (say a month) you need to control a decent sized city or a populated space station. You can also convert Manpower into Wealth or Prestige on a 1:1 basis to represent having people do productive things such as work on your plantations or stand around wearing uniforms at your fancy ball.

      Slaves are transferable manpower! So you might well find other PCs who need manpower but have something else and are willing to trade, they make worse military units than normal manpower (though this can certainly be offset by stuff like shipping them to alien worlds and using them to brutally suppress the natives they feel no connection to). Turning your Manpower income into slaves might make native populations resent you more though.

      Wealth comes from trade, industry, tariffs and taxes, most Space Nobles who control stuff are going to have an income of Wealth points. This is biased toward control of off world resources and trade stations, somebody who rules a prosperous orbital city might only have a Manpower income of 1 but have a Wealth income of 10, the ruler of a continent with a population of a hundred million might have a Manpower income of 10 but a Wealth of 3. A single unit of Wealth is required every interval for a Space Noble to live in minimum suitable social style and extravagance, with no real upper limit to the scaling, perhaps every time you double this you get an extra point of Prestige that interval.
      Two points might be required to outfit a battalion of Space Soldiers, three for a really nicely armed battalion of Space Soldiers. Five for a small warship (Not a Space Noble warship, a more expendable one). A Moon Palace might need a hundred, plus Manpower and Rare Elements.

      Rare Elements would come from mining and only in limited locations, so certain (otherwise horrible) star systems would have Space Mines for people to control, possibly ones which consume Manpower at a steady rate (Hello slaves!). Maintaining Space Noble nanoships would need a trickle of Rare Elements, repairing them substantially more. A single point of Rare Elements would allow a nanoship to manufacture a full panoply of Space Noble grade gear (Space Armour, Space Shield, Space Sword, Space Smart Dress, Space Cufflinks, etc) for one person. More to allow outfitting of Moon Palace suites for supreme luxury or to build in special security or entertainment arrangements beyond the regular level of advanced technology, significant quantities to make smaller spacecraft (Say, 5 man corvettes for going off on personal level Space Adventures)

      Incomes of these points would be reverse exponential thanks to inefficiencies in administration and abstracted stuff – the person who rules a good sized city might get 1 Manpower a month, the person who rules an entire world with a billion people might get 20, so at a certain point just grabbing MORE would be inefficient compared to handing out good sized chunks of your stuff to people in return for their support.

      posted in Mildly Constructive
      P
      Packrat
    • RE: Space Lords and Ladies

      @mietze said:

      Is there a way to tie things together? A mechanic that draws PCs together, like rewarding Space Duke for incorporating PC privateers/captains rather than their on-paper assets? I like Ganymede's idea on Reno to have willng players taking on staff outlined or fed plots, maybe that could be used to help with giving explorers/captains something to do other than ts on the deck or hang out at the port bar?

      My idea there would be that the player character Space Nobles are also The Best at whatever their thing is, with character generation pitched so that they are normally at least pretty competent (For genetically engineered Space Nobles) at other stuff expected of them. So if the Space Duchess wants to send a ship to achieve something she could send an NPC ship - but the PC ship with Space Chris Tatum, Space Scarlet Johansson and Space Harry Bellie on it will do far better. Even if Space Chris Tatum's main thing is that he is great at Space Opera he is still a competent Space Knight and a match for a hundred space marines or a half dozen Space Elves and thus really handy to have along.

      posted in Mildly Constructive
      P
      Packrat
    • 1
    • 2
    • 25
    • 26
    • 27
    • 28
    • 29
    • 27 / 29