FCs on Comic MUs
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@lithium It's selective bias as well though. When you see Superman locked in a room with Lois Lane you're way more likely to notice it than when Bob's in a room with Jane.
- He who takes offense when not intended is a fool. He who takes offense when intended is a greater fool.
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@arkandel Actually in my selective bias I'd be more inclined to notice Fire and Ice off together
But not what I meant. There are types of people who grab FC's just to try and seduce people as much as possible to get their freak on, maybe because the character name is already taken on Shang or something, I dunno.
Not all private RP is TS, I know this, I get accused of it all the time even on non-sexual characters (Aliens who don't find humans attractive, robots, oWoD vampires who's sex drive is as dead as they are, etc) but that doesn't mean there /aren't/ those types who /do/ that, if there weren't, it wouldn't be a trope.
Hello! Long time listener, first time caller...
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@lithium No, I agree. I guess the other factor though is that sometimes TS (or private RP in general) is a last resort when nothing else is happening on a MU*, since you can at least roleplay something. FCs aren't immune to that.
Now, granted, a major FC should find it easier to get something going - but that's on paper. For instance if I have Lex Luthor then I don't want him going to random bars (or at least not too often) since it will trivialise the character and cheapen his appearances; in a way there are fewer scene opportunities than others get.
But Clark Kent could be anywhere at all, so he doesn't get that free pass.
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@roz said in FCs on Comic MUs:
You don't have to run PRPs to be a good fachead.
What you said here brought up two comments, not directed to or at you, Roz.
First, this is very true. Good faction heads are hard to find. Staff should not be quick to make these fac-heads staff because this converts them to staff, which entails different duties, obligations, and responsibilities on top of usually-unwarranted extra scrutiny. Pro-tip: do not convert good fac-heads to staff unless absolutely necessary.
Second, games with fac-heads need to give serious consideration to the use of redshirts/proxies/drones. These are player objects that are publicly available, and meant to be a proxy PC object for another PC, allowing them to appear, essentially, in two places at once. The use of these has been the subject of debate, but I would opine that these would be useful on superhero games for the reasons Lithium and Arkandel are discussing.
If Superman-player wants to have special private time with Lois Lane, that's perfectly okay. But he should not be ducking out of his Justice League meeting or RP obligations just to get his super-rocks on. Letting him use a redshirt to do private RP frees up his PC object to attend that important meeting or RP. This means Superman-player can accomplish two important objectives at once: (1) making sure his faction is active; and (2) making sure his relationship is on solid ground.
For staff, this also obviates the excuse of "well, I planned an IC date with Lois, so I couldn't make the meeting" or "I can't put enough time into my obligations because of the social/private RP I want to have to further Superman's character development." It makes scheduling things easier: you could feasibly be at two different, important events at once, and, so long as there's no alt or timing conflict, that could, again, mean that Superman is more active from the perspective of other players. Pro-tip: letting players use proxies increases their availability for RP with their PCs, which increases activity on the game.
“It is better to live doing the things that you like. It is foolish to live within this dream of a world seeing unpleasantness and doing only things that you do not like.” -- Yamamoto Tsunetomo.
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@ganymede said in FCs on Comic MUs:
@roz said in FCs on Comic MUs:
You don't have to run PRPs to be a good fachead.
What you said here brought up two comments, not directed to or at you directly, Roz.
How dare you. You may only post in response to me!
First, this is very true. Good faction heads are hard to find. Staff should not be quick to make these fac-heads staff because this converts them to staff, which entails different duties, obligations, and responsibilities on top of usually-unwarranted extra scrutiny. Pro-tip: do not convert good fac-heads to staff unless absolutely necessary.
Good facheads are a FUCKING PRECIOUS COMMODITY. And it often tends to be a thankless job. Please support your facheads when they're doing good fachead things. And yes, it's very precious to be able to have players who are good at this and can do it who are not staff.
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@prototart said in FCs on Comic MUs:
but I also think people tend to forget how many periods in the books
See this right here? this right here is the reason you don't run a hero game with FC. I cannot even imagine the sheer amount of time taken up by people correcting/telling/complaining/opining about how things were at some point in the books.
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@kanye-qwest But there's no reason the time period can't be defined either for the entire game or the character in question.
"This is Rebirth Superman".
(In fact, to me, there's no other way that makes sense but there are so many hybrid MU* out there I guess I must be a minority)
- He who takes offense when not intended is a fool. He who takes offense when intended is a greater fool.
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@arkandel But there IS a reason, and the reason is: I have things I would rather do with my time than 1. define that and 2. defend my definition endlessly
I mean obviously I'm being fippant, if you are down to spend your time that way, excellent. I would never, ever staff on a comic game where people could play published characters.
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@arkandel said in FCs on Comic MUs:
@kanye-qwest But there's no reason the time period can't be defined either for the entire game or the character in question.
"This is Rebirth Superman".
(In fact, to me, there's no other way that makes sense but there are so many hybrid MU* out there I guess I must be a minority)
Right? Like... pretty much every comic game I played on until I took an, idk, 6-ish year break had a theme that was just "it's (Marvel/DC), this is when it's set."
And those places always had plenty of players so I really, genuinely dunno what changed that made everybody decide you just couldn't do a comic place that anybody'd play on unless it was potpourri
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@kanye-qwest said in FCs on Comic MUs:
@arkandel But there IS a reason, and the reason is: I have things I would rather do with my time than 1. define that and 2. defend my definition endlessly
I mean obviously I'm being fippant, if you are down to spend your time that way, excellent. I would never, ever staff on a comic game where people could play published characters.
I have to second this. Still feel more potential for less wrong fun drama in an OC environment. Crossover with what I want for a new setting. Wild Cards, Year 0, No FCs. Jetboy died trying to stop the alien virus, all wild cards are OC.
Or better, something else 'happened', people now have powers, all OCs.
As noted, by @Kanye-Qwest, Just defining that cutoff choice and what's allowable FC wise is a nightmare and a lot of places that have done that start from knowledgeable staff base when the average player base is more casual fan I believe. It takes defending to say, no X can't be here yet, they're post cutoff, or Y can't be here, they only crossed into the dimension in Z and returned to their world, its canon, we're not allowing them back in (but why?, no, but why?).
In any canon with cutoff, as comics have been around like, a century+ and such, there is a crazy level of history to any pre-cutoff that has been explored in canon with timetravel and back story that defining can't be just selecting a cutoff point and assuming everyone knows what is meant even.
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@prototart said in FCs on Comic MUs:
@arkandel said in FCs on Comic MUs:
@kanye-qwest But there's no reason the time period can't be defined either for the entire game or the character in question.
"This is Rebirth Superman".
(In fact, to me, there's no other way that makes sense but there are so many hybrid MU* out there I guess I must be a minority)
Right? Like... pretty much every comic game I played on until I took an, idk, 6-ish year break had a theme that was just "it's (Marvel/DC), this is when it's set."
And those places always had plenty of players so I really, genuinely dunno what changed that made everybody decide you just couldn't do a comic place that anybody'd play on unless it was potpourri
Decline in players at those places, the single canon joints started closing down due to lack of interest. They all started going towards the 'year-0' to have less definition of chars to be more open, others started to open up to potpourri resets of themselves even. The trend just kept on going, resets, potpourri's, how to be more open versus 'limiting' cutoffs.
The 6 year break is interesting, back then I was more into comic places, especially the one flavor sort (Its Marvel here is our cutoff, its DC here is our cutoff). Now I have an overall disinterest in comic places but I keep trying (as a daytime player, I'm not privy to metaplots on virtually most places, comic places have traditional been the most open to freeform PrP style play to me).
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@lotherio said in FCs on Comic MUs:
In any canon with cutoff, as comics have been around like, a century+ and such, there is a crazy level of history to any pre-cutoff that has been explored in canon with timetravel and back story that defining can't be just selecting a cutoff point and assuming everyone knows what is meant even.
Sure but isn't that what theme files are for? Giving an actionable sense of where stuff is at and the feel and the theme you're going for?
I don't think you need to've read every single comic a character was in to know enough to play them in a way they're recognizably them, there are a ton of wiki places now that aren't crap and I mean tbh you can get literally every comic ever made online without spending a dime anymore if you want to
I think maybe the issue isn't how "limiting" canon places are but just how insanely pedantic a ton of the old ones were with detail? Like, I remember places that expected you to do a bg that mentioned literally every single thing that's ever happened to that char and were just, "of a skill isn't written up you don't have it even if it's a completely basic life skill almost everyone picks up"
I've clearly been out of this forever, I've been on like two games in 4 years, but I really think a canon place would do totally fine as long as you made it clear a bg by Tolstoy and power entries that talk about how your powers work based in physics aren't remotely needed to get a char
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@prototart said in FCs on Comic MUs:
@lotherio said in FCs on Comic MUs:
In any canon with cutoff, as comics have been around like, a century+ and such, there is a crazy level of history to any pre-cutoff that has been explored in canon with timetravel and back story that defining can't be just selecting a cutoff point and assuming everyone knows what is meant even.
Sure but isn't that what theme files are for? Giving an actionable sense of where stuff is at and the feel and the theme you're going for?
I don't think you need to've read every single comic a character was in to know enough to play them in a way they're recognizably them, there are a ton of wiki places now that aren't crap and I mean tbh you can get literally every comic ever made online without spending a dime anymore if you want to
I think maybe the issue isn't how "limiting" canon places are but just how insanely pedantic a ton of the old ones were with detail? Like, I remember places that expected you to do a bg that mentioned literally every single thing that's ever happened to that char and were just, "of a skill isn't written up you don't have it even if it's a completely basic life skill almost everyone picks up"
I've clearly been out of this forever, I've been on like two games in 4 years, but I really think a canon place would do totally fine as long as you made it clear a bg by Tolstoy and power entries that talk about how your powers work based in physics aren't remotely needed to get a char
This is what @Kanye-Qwest meant I believe in the difficulty of staffing an place with FCs. Staff has to spend time defining what is or isn't allowable, then deal with players reasoning other concepts that were not included in the defining but players with some knowledge could rationalize. Like, lets say we take a recent cutoff in Marvel history. Someone want's Kurt. Is it AoA Kurt Darkholme, returned Monk Kurt, what if someone wants pre Monk Kurt and more traditional Kurt, or two Kurts allowed? What about Nocturne, someone always wants Nocturne? What is Mystiques one and true history going to be, it affects what affects Kurt? It is all pedantic, and it falls on staff to define cutoff with enough detail to avoid confusion and then defend it against pedantics.
Which is my lean towards OC being a thing. I wish there was just more original theme in general I suppose vs relying on canon because most places fall into the same curiosities it seems. If I play another canon comic place, my preference is one flavor (only marvel, only DC, hard cutoff), but I'd never staff on such a place if ever asked again.
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@kanye-qwest said in FCs on Comic MUs:
@prototart said in FCs on Comic MUs:
but I also think people tend to forget how many periods in the books
See this right here? this right here is the reason you don't run a hero game with FC. I cannot even imagine the sheer amount of time taken up by people correcting/telling/complaining/opining about how things were at some point in the books.
My experience: Almost zero. And its been ... I don't even know. At least a year, going on year and a half to two?
There's maybe two players who do it in +ooc, vaguely.
Seriously, all of you on this wrongfun whining and nitpicking and all OC's are the only sane way to comic, blah blah.
This is all in your make believe portion of your skull or you are stuck in something that used to happen a million years ago when you last comic gamed.
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@ixokai said in FCs on Comic MUs:
My experience: Almost zero. And its been ... I don't even know. At least a year, going on year and a half to two?
Is your experience limited to your game? Because your game has a very definite time and scope, so I can see why there would be fewer issues regarding timelines or versions.
I can see how people may believe there to be a massive discussion about timelines on other games. I mean, it seems that there's an awful lot of discussion of this nature for a game like UH, for example, but I'd like to hear it from those players.
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@ganymede said in FCs on Comic MUs:
@ixokai said in FCs on Comic MUs:
My experience: Almost zero. And its been ... I don't even know. At least a year, going on year and a half to two?
Is your experience limited to your game? Because your game has a very definite time and scope, so I can see why there would be fewer issues regarding timelines or versions.
I can see how people may believe there to be a massive discussion about timelines on other games. I mean, it seems that there's an awful lot of discussion of this nature for a game like UH, for example, but I'd like to hear it from those players.
Yeah, I've said before (in this thread) this is my first comic game.
But I have been mushing as long as almost anyone, and we as a hobby have this sharp tendency to get hung up on shit that happened to us a decade and a half ago.
My game is not a giant, but its fairly popular, open to the public, and if there were this toxic culture of nitpicking canon and drama-ing over FC's or not, I can't see how I wouldn't have seen the fallout from it. Or at least tension in +ooc which I'm the cop assigned to monitor.
Reminder: We aren't marvel-only, we allow people from any time period or alt-U. The main difference between UH and us that I see is a) we are set in a slightly historic setting (but contrary to what I've heard lately, do not limit characters to only '60s era characters' or the like), and b) we don't incorporate non comic stuff like Supernatural or Buffy.
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@ixokai You are dealing with an Alt-U right /out the gate/ so canon, doesn't matter to begin with.
The differences between your game and others is downright huge. Every character on your game is already an adaptation and a different take on the character than what exists in normal comic book sequence and lore.
So honestly, that's why you've hardly ever seen it.
On other Comic games, which try and do year one, or JLU or whatever, it can get very nasty, almost impossible even, to try and keep it all wrangled together.
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@ixokai said in FCs on Comic MUs:
@ganymede said in FCs on Comic MUs:
@ixokai said in FCs on Comic MUs:
My experience: Almost zero. And its been ... I don't even know. At least a year, going on year and a half to two?
Is your experience limited to your game? Because your game has a very definite time and scope, so I can see why there would be fewer issues regarding timelines or versions.
I can see how people may believe there to be a massive discussion about timelines on other games. I mean, it seems that there's an awful lot of discussion of this nature for a game like UH, for example, but I'd like to hear it from those players.
Yeah, I've said before (in this thread) this is my first comic game.
Others are speaking in general. Marvel1963 is an interesting concept that is basically a Marvel Year One, alternative history. More like a reset. There are no defined FCs in canon as canon is reset for the game in question.
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@lotherio said in FCs on Comic MUs:
@ixokai said in FCs on Comic MUs:
@ganymede said in FCs on Comic MUs:
@ixokai said in FCs on Comic MUs:
My experience: Almost zero. And its been ... I don't even know. At least a year, going on year and a half to two?
Is your experience limited to your game? Because your game has a very definite time and scope, so I can see why there would be fewer issues regarding timelines or versions.
I can see how people may believe there to be a massive discussion about timelines on other games. I mean, it seems that there's an awful lot of discussion of this nature for a game like UH, for example, but I'd like to hear it from those players.
Yeah, I've said before (in this thread) this is my first comic game.
Others are speaking in general. Marvel1963 is an interesting concept that is basically a Marvel Year One, alternative history. More like a reset. There are no defined FCs in canon as canon is reset for the game in question.
Okay, so what I'm getting out of this is:
Some other comic games have tried to basically re-play re-hash canon and it turned out a toxic disaster.
I can't fathom why anyone would have thought that would be a good idea or why anyone would find it fun, personally.
Perhaps I heard that before and that's why I never comic'd before.
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@ixokai said in FCs on Comic MUs:
Seriously, all of you on this wrongfun whining and nitpicking and all OC's are the only sane way to comic, blah blah.
I never said that so i dunno what you're on. Maybe you quoted the wrong person? Maybe you didn't really read my statement?
But that's part of the issue, too. I have a hard enough time, on the game I am part of, making people accept what I define for the setting. I'm glad your experience has been so breezy but let me tell you: mine has NOT. So, I'm not wrongfunning anyone. I'm saying what I would not do, and why. And now I'm restating what I already said, because that appears to be my fucking lot in life.
