@ThatGuyThere said in Interest/Volunteer Check: Major Multisphere Chronicles of Darkness:
I have stated my issues in other places so as not to derail this thread i won't get into specifics except that I find it too fiddly for my tastes especially on line.
You didn't get into specifics, which is fine, but you also aren't being clear enough for me to figure out if your objections are wholly subjective.
What do you mean by "fiddly"?
Or link commentary from another thread.
I have a waggish sense of humor.
@Misadventure said in Interest/Volunteer Check: Major Multisphere Chronicles of Darkness:
Or link commentary from another thread.
Or provide concise commentary, rather than over-wrought musings.
Not everyone gets paid to practice presenting concise compelling arguments. Besides, what would we complain about then?
I have a waggish sense of humor.
@Ganymede said in Interest/Volunteer Check: Major Multisphere Chronicles of Darkness:
@ThatGuyThere said in Interest/Volunteer Check: Major Multisphere Chronicles of Darkness:
I have stated my issues in other places so as not to derail this thread i won't get into specifics except that I find it too fiddly for my tastes especially on line.
You didn't get into specifics, which is fine, but you also aren't being clear enough for me to figure out if your objections are wholly subjective.
What do you mean by "fiddly"?
Things that lengthen the time spent dealing with mechanics without real improvement of the system.
For example adding athletics to defense, I like the idea in principle but without other overhauls to the system it does not change the real balance between offensive and defensive builds offense will still win every time just now it takes a round or two longer which serves mainly to lengthen combats while still getting to the same results.
Or conditions, I get what they were attempting with them to give solid mechanics to non-combat stuff I like the theory but in practice most of the STs and players I enjoyed RPing with gave mechanical benefits to things like that already. Before I make a good intimidate roll or an NPC does one on my PC the ST says alright you have a -2 or whatever penalty because they are shaken up and you go on, now the shaken becomes a Condition that we then have to most likely look up what that condition means mechanically in the book, and then Have to note it on my sheet so I can then resolve it later. To me that is too much of a hassle when a quick ST call of a penalty and moving on works just as well.
I don't mind either of these changes in table top in fact I support them, but on line I prefer my mechanics a lot simpler and getting to the resolution quicker. Even if we RP out the fight for a couple of hours with good poses I prefer to get the mechanical resolution to the fight done asap.
@Misadventure said in Interest/Volunteer Check: Major Multisphere Chronicles of Darkness:
Besides, what would we complain about then?
You must be new here.
@ThatGuyThere said in Interest/Volunteer Check: Major Multisphere Chronicles of Darkness:
Even if we RP out the fight for a couple of hours with good poses I prefer to get the mechanical resolution to the fight done asap.
I think you're overlooking how you can accept the Beaten Down condition in a fight to end it quickly, which also gives you a Beat.
That aside, I keep hearing people talking about offense winning over defense, but that seems to be realistic. Combat isn't like the NFL; it's like modern combat, where the side with the biggest weapons has a distinct advantage. Even so, I believe I can out-build an offensive PC with a defensive PC, but I suppose the definition of "offense" and "defense" may vary between players.
I like CoD's system mechanics. I find them better balanced and quicker than a lot of other games. But, I see your point, from a certain perspective.
@Ganymede
I have no problem with offense winning over defense. It does in every iteration of WoD old and new I just prefer that if the choices are it winning in 3 rounds or 5 rounds I prefer it to be in 3.
@ThatGuyThere said in Interest/Volunteer Check: Major Multisphere Chronicles of Darkness:
I have no problem with offense winning over defense. It does in every iteration of WoD old and new I just prefer that if the choices are it winning in 3 rounds or 5 rounds I prefer it to be in 3.
The problem was when you got to the 1.0 issue with offense; whoever attacked first won, simply because you could front-load so much stacked bonuses, multiple attacks and/or automatic successes that chances were no one would survive. Combat had become a race for initiative.
That's not a good thing, it's very anticlimatic not to mention awkward to deal with for STs; your NPCs would either one-shoot PCs or not be that challenging, with little in between and at the mercy of RNG on top of that.
Re: Offense vs Defense:
Between the Attack pools shrinking (no longer adding in a weapon bonus) and the Defense pool growing (adding a skill), the actual strength of Offense is diminished - most fights will be at a stalemate between evenly skilled opponents until a great roll, or a decent roll with any sort of significant weapon.
Re: Conditions (and tilts)
Gamers in WoD have been using conditions and tilts since Vampire the Masquerade 1st ed, they just didn't have a name. The Conditions system is just a codified set of moidifiers that, in the end, save work by not needing to make judgement calls. they ae also designed to be used alongside cards or other physical (or digiital) remindeers of said effects.
Conditions can also just be noted and don't need to be recorded via code necessarily.
My issue with condition is that lets say I am in a scene. My PC gets intimidated,
Old way: I modify actions and ST imposes mechanical sanction if necessary and scene rolls on.
New Way: I get told I have Intimidated or Shaken or whatever they call the condition. I then have to dig out the book either physical copy or digital one look up the effect of that condition, then make a note of said condition, put in the req for the beat for receiving a condition then get back to the scene.
TJ sums up the changes excellently it is just he seems them as improvements and I do not, at least not for on line play.
So; crawling up from my silent lurkpit to say - if this does get off the ground? Totally 100% keen to play. Gimmie, gimmie, gimmie.
@ThatGuyThere said in Interest/Volunteer Check: Major Multisphere Chronicles of Darkness:
My issue with condition is that lets say I am in a scene. My PC gets intimidated,
Old way: I modify actions and ST imposes mechanical sanction if necessary and scene rolls on.
New Way: I get told I have Intimidated or Shaken or whatever they call the condition. I then have to dig out the book either physical copy or digital one look up the effect of that condition, then make a note of said condition, put in the req for the beat for receiving a condition then get back to the scene.
I have been playing 2E for a long time, and I have never, ever, ever had to hold up a scene to make note of any condition. And I've been the subject of many conditions. There's no reason you can't do all of that administrative work after the scene is over, yeah?
And there's nothing saying I can't just go with the old way if I get intimidated.
Maybe your experiences are simply different than mine, in which case you have my sympathy.
@Ganymede
I have not played 2E much and was never actually subject to a condition, though that was a purposeful choice I tended to avoid situations they would be likely, even the beneficial ones.
@ThatGuyThere said in Interest/Volunteer Check: Major Multisphere Chronicles of Darkness:
New Way: I get told I have Intimidated or Shaken or whatever they call the condition. I then have to dig out the book either physical copy or digital one look up the effect of that condition, then make a note of said condition, put in the req for the beat for receiving a condition then get back to the scene.
...Why does everyone assume this? I've seen a few people mention this drawback almost verbatim, like "Oh goddamn it, time to pause the entire scene and whip out the Ol' Dusty Tome." It's a MU*, why not just create a quickref database for the purely mechanical effects of the condition to your roll(s) and if you're genuinely curious about the fluff you can look it up later? Also, not to get nitpicky but you don't literally have to put in a req or create the note right then and there, you can do it after the scene is over. You guys make it sound like such a huge hassle but it's mountains out of molehills in my opinion.
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@Wizz There's actually a coded system for this already that has it all covered, actually. +cond. It's pretty neat.
What @surreality said.
+cond <name>. Oh, that's what it does. +cond/add <name>. Done.
And I'm working with @Thenomain to further automatize the processing of Beats based on Conditions, Aspirations, Dramatic Failures, etc.
Yeah, every game I have played on that uses Conditions has had that code. But even otherwise, these gamessages ARE written with the idea that you will have the rules handy.
I'm a rodeo clown.
Is it like having to account for your own health track in various games?
@ThatGuyThere said in Interest/Volunteer Check: Major Multisphere Chronicles of Darkness:
I have stated my issues in other places so as not to derail this thread i won't get into specifics except that I find it too fiddly for my tastes especially on line.
You didn't get into specifics, which is fine, but you also aren't being clear enough for me to figure out if your objections are wholly subjective.
What do you mean by "fiddly"?
