@Wizz

Hate to bring back up a silly topic, but.. sometimes things just don't.. age well? People grow up? What was once an incisive critique/social commentary has aged REALLY poorly. Things change.. Judging books nearly 2-4 decades old at this point for being culturally savvy and appropriate is nearly as bad as expecting Birth of a Nation to have a nuanced view on race relations and immigration.

People who are like, well the voodoo boys were written as racist.. in a setting that is about like, hey racism is messed up.. is lie getting upset at vampires because it sexualizes blood. It's kinda built into the theme. Just the portrayals of that racism haven't aged well.. because.. this may be crazy.. the dialogue/nuances have changed.

So this is genuinely underway at this point, and we are looking for people to help test/build and generally encourage our coder to keep working and show interest.

There may yet be another fallout game. Give me a message if your interested or post here to let me know.

Got a server up and everything. We'll get more details out eventually, but for now at the very least we are planning to set the game in New Canaan and allow players to come from a variety of backgrounds as refugees to the city.

More later.

I have mixed feelings about this advertisement about where the game is going.. its definitely a big case of... I'll beileve it when I see it..

Reno nearly died becuase of a lack of staff assistance in running things.. so if they are willing to pick up the slack unlike what they did before.. perhaps there is something to look forward to! Again though, I wouldn't recommend getting too invested.. but..

Seriously though. Anders.. There is going to be an Anders in this game guys.

There is going to someone who is playing Anders and the question we all are thinking is.. Who is going to get to kill Anders first? Can we kill Anders first? Please let us Kill Anders.

@Kanye-Qwest We'll go halfsies, you can eat it for me.

OH yes, the Bull-born and the Cockroach shifters- I remember those... very interesting aspects and a book that never got used.

The problem is I know for a fact that WW 2e will not have any info on that- so if you are going to use them- that is going to be a completely player driven conversion for the most part.

Perhaps I am off base posting this NOW, but I do want to bring up that reading OR? I cannot help but snicker ever so slightly..

All this discussion on.. RPI staffing and the Community posts made on OR about staffing and ethics.. are... how do I say, questionable at best? Not because the discussion is needed, but because the people who tend t o be discussing it are often times the worst offenders of the bunch, or may have, but nobody knows, because there has been consistently 0 transparency with the authors and writers.

. Sure there might be some merit in the discussion about how Mush's evolved as a game code wise, yes. Ethics and Staff Culture however? That is another cookie entirety. It's funny to see these posts to me. Especially with SOI's recent outburst of anxiety and anger towards their staff, the closing of their forums, and the migration of those groups to other forums, how far the mushing community has come in comparison. Whereas Mushs have constantly had to compete with this problem, and answered this question by trying to be more transparent, developing new systems to be inclusive to newer players making them more relevant, and generally just a philosophy of staffing focused on the appearance of justice, if not justice itself..

RPI's and perhaps Evennia I've noticed, seem to be in constant risk of slipping further and further down the corruption hole. The lack of staff-player communication, except through a one sided system. Total Staff Anonymity, Obscuring mechanics and systems intentionally, and never necessarily revealing their existence. Then of course, the fact that when a problem blows up in their face, because players are unable to complain- they have to 'deal' icly with staff hissy fits for what can sometimes be legitimate complaints... well..

I've got to jet here in about 5, but I wanted to put this out here.
I'll do a comparison of RPI vs Mush character advancement to underscore the differences in design philosophy and staffing principals that I find why RPI systems to be fundamentally misguided on creating a fun, inclusive game.

What impresses me so much about Cyberpunk 2077 is its world building... as well as its story..

Did you know..

(Kinda spoilery, but not really
***=***

And a LITTLE more spoilers, but has nothing to do with the plot or anything relevant to V at all. If things have gone off the wall, you should of been able to figure this one out.

***=***

Well, Well... WELL

I'm going to roll the stats for a fucking
outspoken Tiefling Druid from a plague ridden city who is downright racist towards living skeletons

@wizz More than fair! Again, I won't deny its problematic, but at least in helped contribute to the dialouge, and Pondsmith IS changing and updating things. Better to adapt and change then just keep it the same right?

Shadowrun does a way better job at it- a lot more obvious, its easy to point out how racism is fucked up when you literally just make another race to expy for Blacks- great way to help demonstrate the concept of systematic racism too, in easy to understand terms!

Cyberpunk (the game, not the genre) doesn't have that going for it sadly, and so has to just be more overt at times, and sometimes that makes it age really, really poorly.

Let me break this down as simply as I can..

Keep in mind that the book I Referenced is very well known and respected in Poland and Germany, and brings up a lot about psychology, culture and society and adapting to negative situations.. This is a well established cultural discussion point, and this game was written by poles, designed by poles, and made by poles, many of whom probably had that book as required reading.

Let us move on then towards what is happening...

1. WHy did CD Project Red make this sequence instead of something else? There was a point to spend meticulous man hours on what is ultimate a sequence which could be done a myriad other ways. This was done with a purpose what purpose?

2. To show that the world of cyberpunk is fucked up? HOW? How is it showing its fucked up? Why is this necessary?

3. Becuase there is a market for BDs like this, that society has decayed so much that death is commercialize. But how does this market exist?

4. We reach the crux of the problem... and the original post. It isn't freaks that make the market, there are too few to really make such a detailed operation sustainable..

And instead of dressing it, I wonder why people are so quick to point out it isn't real and fake.. when that.. clearly is obvious? Like no duh? It doesn't change the fact people are participating in this sequence without questioning it. Just following along, perpetuating the market in this game..

That raises no eyebrows or questions? None at all?

As for why it is a trick.. eh, it doesn't really explain what participation means in a broader context. I'm not arguing that watching a video game snuff film is somehow morally hazardous, but is instead illuminating about how easy it is to manipulate someone into DOING something that COULD be morally hazardous.

@derp Ohhhh! Makes sense! Yah okay, I see that now.. hrm, but stonks are basically gambling... I wonder how this'll hold up as they'd have to show intentional negligence right?

I'm curious to know what a persons injury would be that couldn't be resolved through a refund? Lost time I guess?

@wizz The goal here is how easy it is to be psychologically tricked and conditioned into contributing to horrible things without realizing you have a way out. That perhaps whatever the context, or justification, you still may be tricked at the end of the day, and that there is a larger lesson to be learned about life and the human condition through this sequence. It's easy to go this would never happen to me, this is a video game, its easy to delineate what is right and wrong.. and then never engage with the actual subject at hand about what just happened.

@derp I would recommend that book, it basically articulates a very similar argument or 'opinion' just about a different context.

@runescryer I know what encompasses btls, calhots, BD's and everything in between from stage productions involving dragons, cutting edge AR Video games to pornographic records. IN this regard, I am discussing specifically snuff.

@derp I disagree, I actually know exactly what I am talking about, and there is no conflation of reality and fantasy. What I am getting at is that thankfully this lesson isn't real, but it should still be a lesson.. but I guess I'm not articulating it well enough, so I guess someone else will need to articulate it for me..

https://www.amazon.com/Ordinary-Men-Reserve-Battalion-Solution-ebook/dp/B01G1F0F84

Discussing what this sort of thing looks like in real life tends to take some very, VERY dark turns.

@auspice A gross characterization of my point, and frankly insulting. I hold no moral superiority in this regard.

Considering many folks unless properly aware of the context of what this is is going to run through it... and not realize that they were trapped/tricked. Instead of trying to justify how it isn't real, maybe instead engage with the idea of how easy it was to become complicit in this worlds criminal BD scene, and ask how horrifying it is that its so easy to just sort of slide into it.. even in our real world now. An Ordinary person is just as vulnerable to these hardcore BD's as some freak in the right set of circumstances. The market doesn't exist because there are a few bad eggs or hardcore freaks, but everyday users like you or I.

@derp See, again with the dissociation, but I don't know that is entirely appropriate in this case? The way I see it, the lines are incredibly thin, there are far too many comparable justifications/reasons that should make things uncomfortable close life. The game is trying to get a message across with this sequence.. and you might go its the world is fucked up.. sure.. but that everywhere in the game, it's on the street corners, in the corporate high-rises. The world is fucked.

This sequence is trying to get at something else- why would they make it a first person BTL otherwise? You could of just done an investigation of distribution networks.. but you do the BTL.. why? Because they want you to go through it, have that choice. But then why did they do that? What is the reason and motivation of a Polish studio to demonstrate how easy it is to dehumanize and be complicit in some sort of criminal activity?

@Auspice I mean this with the best possible intentions, and humor but I never expected to be gatekept with regards to snuff film. That wasn't something I was aware of that I'd have to deal with lol.

And again missing the representation, the undertones, why is this being done?

Evenlyn's trauma is a diffirent problem all together, having to do with Bunraku Sex Dolls,

and your right, it is a bit of a reach to say actively contributing, but perhaps more apt to say- how easy it is to trick you into it?