Wheel of Time MU(SH|X)

[Tempest]

@BobGoblin said in Wheel of Time MU(SH|X):

Quality control with a bunch of special snowflakes.

And we wonder why our hobby has issues?

It's almost like the hobby is 90% writing and storytelling. Things where quality is very important.

[Packrat]

The one benefit of people being awful at playing secret evil is that it is super easy to act in such a manner that they recruit you, then you can betray and slaughter them in mass because they never think to actually operate in a cell structure or similar.

[WildBaboons]

@Packrat said in Wheel of Time MU(SH|X):

The one benefit of people being awful at playing secret evil is that it is super easy to act in such a manner that they recruit you, then you can betray and slaughter them in mass because they never think to actually operate in a cell structure or similar.

This. I envision black ajah as a thing, but with a lot of staff attention towards keeping with the theme of secrecy. People being dumb in ways that would out the Ajah end up dead.

I am a big fan of wolfkin as well, but have run into the same problem of acceptance before. Most people do not know what the yellow eyes means other than that they're unnerving so it's not exactly unthematic for it to be accepted, but it's the other behavior that gets odd. Quite literally running with wolves should get a sideways look or two.

[Packrat]

Well keep in mind that I am bitter and cynical and burnt on games in general along with not really having played anywhere since I quit Arx almost six months ago, whilst having barely played anywhere for a few years before that, so I am probably not the best perspective.

[Ashen-Shugar]

@Packrat said in Wheel of Time MU(SH|X):

The one benefit of people being awful at playing secret evil is that it is super easy to act in such a manner that they recruit you, then you can betray and slaughter them in mass because they never think to actually operate in a cell structure or similar.

[deadculture]

@Packrat said in Wheel of Time MU(SH|X):

Well keep in mind that I am bitter and cynical and burnt on games in general along with not really having played anywhere since I quit Arx almost six months ago, whilst having barely played anywhere for a few years before that, so I am probably not the best perspective.

You should get the Star Crusade codebase and make your Fading Suns game

[Packrat]

@deadculture said in Wheel of Time MU(SH|X):

You should get the Star Crusade codebase and make your Fading Suns game

I looked at doing so, I know Paulus has a copy of the database, I even have a server, but I also have chronic depression thanks to some RL stuff (yes I am getting it treated).

I would burn out within weeks. Also Star Crusade's codebase was basically just a die roller and +sheet. No character generation, no equipment, no way to track money, etc

[utahsaint]

@Packrat There were barely even tools to set the sheet as I recall. I remember doing most of it by hand setting attributes.

[deadculture]

@Packrat said in Wheel of Time MU(SH|X):

@deadculture said in Wheel of Time MU(SH|X):

You should get the Star Crusade codebase and make your Fading Suns game

I looked at doing so, I know Paulus has a copy of the database, I even have a server, but I also have chronic depression thanks to some RL stuff (yes I am getting it treated).

I would burn out within weeks. Also Star Crusade's codebase was basically just a die roller and +sheet. No character generation, no equipment, no way to track money, etc

I can help with the difficult-to-handle things if you get the codebase and the other shit. Even if it's barebones. I can also look into getting a coder to implement a proper chargen.

[Arkandel]

What's the consensus on NPCs?

For instance a problem with not having the Forsaken around is how neat they can be when they get involved in a plot. They're part of what makes the WoT so great - an identifiable individual evil cast each with their own motivation and methods.

The disadvantage of having the Forsaken around without the good-guy book characters to balance them out is that they should be able to curbstomp basically anything regular PCs can put together.

[Tempest]

@Arkandel said in Wheel of Time MU(SH|X):

The disadvantage of having the Forsaken around without the good-guy book characters to balance them out is that they should be able to curbstomp basically anything regular PCs can put together.

What MUs have you been playing?

My experience tells me the "regular PCs" will eventually (because omg what about CHARACTER GROWTH? If my character isn't getting stronger, why am I even RPing!? /s) be powerful enough to wipe out every single Forsaken at once without batting an eye.

I'm sure somebody will app a farmgirl, get recruited to the White Tower, and become the strongest Aes Sedai while uncovering forgotten channeling techniques and collecting a horde of angreal. In the span of 6 months.

So basically, the book characters, but on steroids.

[Ominous]

@Tempest said in Wheel of Time MU(SH|X):

My experience tells me the "regular PCs" will eventually (because omg what about CHARACTER GROWTH? If my character isn't getting stronger, why am I even RPing!? /s) be powerful enough to wipe out every single Forsaken at once without batting an eye.

Because all MUs are secretly shonen anime. Everyone wants has to be over 9000.

[WildBaboons]

Forsaken as NPC: probably? Depending on the time frame the game is set it limits just who is around though

but also remember that the Forsaken are not the "fite me, m80" bad guy sorts. They're not only some of the strongest, most skilled channelers, but they're the most devious and manipulative. If a PC gets into a situation that puts them into a direct confrontation with most of the Chosen then the chosen wasn't being played well.

System wise I would try to make it so that while character growth never really stops it hits a point where a PC will never realistically be able to catch-up to where the Forsaken/Dragon are during the life of the Mu

[Packrat]

To be fair and as mentioned above, in the books, there were multiple characters able to overpower one of the Forsaken in a direct head on fight, even early on.

But the Forsaken have absolutely no interest in risking things in head on personal confrontation, they have long term plans and know a ton of really scary magical shit that you do not. They can mind control people, they can wear magical disguises, they can basically teleport. You cannot do that stuff (probably) or even know that anyone is around who can. That is where they are actually powerful.

If one of the Forsaken just barreled in going 'Rarr, fear me!' without planning then a random circle of random Aes Sedai could pretty easily overpower and defeat one.

[Seraphim73]

@Arkandel said in Wheel of Time MU(SH|X):

What's the consensus on NPCs?

I'm a firm believer that major Features should be NPCs played by Staff only when they're needed. So you use Forsaken to give orders to your Darkfriends or to terrify PCs who are getting too big for their britches. You use Siuan Sanche to give an Aes Sedai secret orders. You use Rand to put an uppity Asha'man in his place (if need be). You don't use any of them for BaRP or for TS.

[Arkandel]

@Tempest said in Wheel of Time MU(SH|X):

What MUs have you been playing?

My experience tells me the "regular PCs" will eventually (because omg what about CHARACTER GROWTH? If my character isn't getting stronger, why am I even RPing!? /s) be powerful enough to wipe out every single Forsaken at once without batting an eye.

But if we start with the assumption staff is bad, or at least that they aren't good at system design (which is what the symptoms you are referring to are caused by) then of course things will go south.

That's why threads like this exist, to help steer design around issues like power inflation to the point the game's theme is no longer challenging for its own PCs.

[WildBaboons]

On the female side of things (and in Randland proper) Nynaeve was described as the strongest channeller found in several generations and she was more or less the exact match of the weakest female Forsaken, but that is in raw strength only, not in talent or finesse. There are other examples of experienced channelers able to make up for lack of strength with practice, specialization and familiarity. I would strive to have the power level of characters match to these constraints. Unaided (key term there), a PC won't be able to get into a contest of pure strength with a Forsaken and win, but they may be able to come out ahead through practical application (Moiraine balefiring what's-their-name, the Kin woman's talent with shielding, etc)

And yes, Feature/Book characters should be used sparingly. I believe they should be used to facilitate the story, not BE the story.

[Arkandel]

@WildBaboons The WoT in general suffered from a bad case of the power creeps, where they kept discovering channelers, angreal and tricks more powerful than anyone we'd ever seen before.

[Kanye Qwest]

I just wanna know if I can play Sean-chan?

[Ominous]

@Kanye-Qwest

No, but here is a consolation prize.