What is your God-Machine
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If you were to ST a game/launch a MU, what would the role of the God-Machine be in your world?
Is it a Creator, having made the universe? An invading force, some vague leftover of another time or place? Perhaps it is simply the Operating System of reality? Or a machine crafted by Ancient Atlanteans to maintain the function of the world?
Does the God-Machine cull overpopulated Kindred by repurposing them and creating VII? Did a rogue Occult Matrix on the Moon birth the Idigam? Do the various occult matrices exist to generate enough Mana to maintain a a forced link to the Supernal?
I'm a rodeo clown.
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@tragedyjones said:
If you were to ST a game/launch a MU, what would the role of the God-Machine be in your world?
Is it a Creator, having made the universe? An invading force, some vague leftover of another time or place? Perhaps it is simply the Operating System of reality? Or a machine crafted by Ancient Atlanteans to maintain the function of the world?
Does the God-Machine cull overpopulated Kindred by repurposing them and creating VII? Did a rogue Occult Matrix on the Moon birth the Idigam? Do the various occult matrices exist to generate enough Mana to maintain a a forced link to the Supernal?
Oooph. Loaded question, brah. I have a ton of answers, some of them highly applicable to Eldritch and many of them not. This makes it really difficult to answer. I'm going to give it some thought. I can't just answer with everything because it might prejudice my game's air of mystery.
But super good question. I would like to see other people's answers.
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My God-Machine is the nWoD version of Iteration-X, a machine that infests itself throughout folds of reality that is so extensive that it doesn't always know what other parts are doing, slow to act but complete in its implementation. My modern-day version of the G-M would be based on the fears of computers taking over the world from the better 1960s sci-fi movies. Its intelligence is so large that it can't help but be alien and bordering on a force of nature rather than a super-human intelligence.
I like to believe that it was originally conceived as something meant to help and then forgotten. Something not born of human sacrifice and maliciousness, but as tool. For some reason, I want to blame the Ancient Greeks for it, but would be just as happy to blame the Ancient Sumerians or Ancient Other People Whom We Don't Give As Much Credit As They Are Due. I don't think it matters, in the sense that even if an answer was given it wouldn't help one iota to deal with it.
@tragedyjones said:
Does the God-Machine cull overpopulated Kindred by repurposing them and creating VII? Did a rogue Occult Matrix on the Moon birth the Idigam? Do the various occult matrices exist to generate enough Mana to maintain a a forced link to the Supernal?
No, no, and no. My God-Machine is more reactionary than that, and I don't like the idea that you could tie all WoD to the God-Machine any more than the metaphysics of the Mages. I want my World of Darkness to be iteratively complex, that for all the strangeness in the world it can keep getting stranger, that it's turtles all the way down.
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My God-Machine is a conspiracy, a system whose influence has grown with the rise of mankind itself so it's only invisible because we lack the baseline any more to tell what the world would be without it. It was first discovered then further advanced through the ages by an elevated pantheon of small Gods able to harvest a particular resonance from human beings to further their causes. It is thus an invention, as it did not originally exist; it's still evolving after a fashion but only internally, into an ever-greater refinement of itself.
Among those Gods that birthed it some have waned in power and are now extinct (or are now barely able to function due to extended starvation) while others are patrons of popular notions and are thriving, so they're doing everything in their power to further and integrate their agenda on the world even more. They are using their apostles among the populace, driven by Angels, to achieve this; occasionally a champion rises around whom they can build - most of our most celebrated historical figures were numbered among them.
Like liches they maintain the status quo because if they fear one thing above all others it is a true paradigm shift, something unprecedented that'll prove incompatible with their system, bringing an end to their reign. Therefore everything has to be a derivative, a product of something which came before, so that any radical turn must be suppressed, diverted from its course and stalled to irrelevance.
Time is their ultimate tool since it's the one inexhaustible resource they have left; their failures are buried in its depths (Atlantis, Lemuria, the Library of Alexandria, long-gone Empires, etc). My campaign would be based on exploration of ancient resources as characters hunt down what they're not supposed to find in whatever it is these Gods feared in the first place enough to take corrective measures, while being tempted with elevation to the status of champions or even Godhood itself themselves once they start getting too near to dangerous truths. I'd also throw some dilemmas for good measure - would they risk humanity realizing they've been played for millennia? Would they care ?
... That's what I got.
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The God Machine is the Weaver. He won and banished the rest of the Triat and rebuilt the World of Darkness without all of the excitement of the old universe.
It's why nWoD is so stale.
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@Admiral said:
The God Machine is the Weaver. He won and banished the rest of the Triat and rebuilt the World of Darkness without all of the excitement of the old universe.
It's why nWoD is so stale.
Wow, it took four whole posts before someone complained! New record.
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@Admiral said:
The God Machine is the Weaver. He won and banished the rest of the Triat and rebuilt the World of Darkness without all of the excitement of the old universe.
It's why nWoD is so stale.
A++, would upvote again.
Wow, it took four whole posts before someone complained! New record.
You can't give people awesome but terrible junk food for ages, then take it away and replace it with stale but efficient and more or less healthy MRE rations, and not expect the complaints to be ongoing. Even after they're resigned to their fate.
My God-Machine is the nWoD version of Iteration-X, a machine that infests itself throughout folds of reality that is so extensive that it doesn't always know what other parts are doing, slow to act but complete in its implementation.
I think you mean the nWoD version of The Computer, the fusion of AI and spirit in Autochthonia that ran Iteration-X's shit until they wised up after Revised. >_>
Edit:
@tragedyjones
In my world there is no God-Machine, because all hyperbole aside, I find it to be one of the absolute worst ideas to come out of nWoD outside of Promethean. -
@HelloRaptor said:
I think you mean the nWoD version of The Computer, the fusion of AI and spirit in Autochthonia that ran Iteration-X's shit until they wised up after Revised. >_>
I was burnt out on WoD by the time Revised came out. I understand some stuff happened then they killed the entire line with fire, so sure, why not.
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@HelloRaptor said:
@Admiral said:
The God Machine is the Weaver. He won and banished the rest of the Triat and rebuilt the World of Darkness without all of the excitement of the old universe.
It's why nWoD is so stale.
A++, would upvote again.
Wow, it took four whole posts before someone complained! New record.
You can't give people awesome but terrible junk food for ages, then take it away and replace it with stale but efficient and more or less healthy MRE rations, and not expect the complaints to be ongoing. Even after they're resigned to their fate.
My God-Machine is the nWoD version of Iteration-X, a machine that infests itself throughout folds of reality that is so extensive that it doesn't always know what other parts are doing, slow to act but complete in its implementation.
I think you mean the nWoD version of The Computer, the fusion of AI and spirit in Autochthonia that ran Iteration-X's shit until they wised up after Revised. >_>
Edit:
@tragedyjones
In my world there is no God-Machine, because all hyperbole aside, I find it to be one of the absolute worst ideas to come out of nWoD outside of Promethean.TL;DR @HelloRaptor is a hater, news at eleven.
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@HelloRaptor said:
@Admiral said:
The God Machine is the Weaver. He won and banished the rest of the Triat and rebuilt the World of Darkness without all of the excitement of the old universe.
It's why nWoD is so stale.
A++, would upvote again.
You didn't even upvote once, you lying liar!
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In my games, the God-Machine is a physical manifestation of the human cost of standardization and the consequences of demanding that complex people force themselves to fit within simple, rigid systems, thematically speaking. It IS the "system" given form - ultimately, its aims might be good or evil, but it doesn't matter because it has no regard for humanity or human agency. It should be as much manifest in a version of OK Cupid that refuses to let you even look at anyone who doesn't "fit" you according to its compatibility algorithm, or the 'lifehack' app that rearranges your daily schedule so that it's entirely efficient and you never have to try anything that you won't enjoy, as it is angels whispering in the ears of a programmer until she throws herself off a building. It's Samaritan AND the Machine from Person of Interest, both at the same time, and pretty much incomprehensible from the viewpoint of a PC. But not omniscient or omnipotent, although the degree to which it attempts to exercise control can mimic that, to some extent. Ultimately, though, it's a parasite, an experiment gone wild and self-aware, or a corrupted savior of a world that is winding down towards an inevitable apocalypse...or all at the same time. I like the idea that the G-M is a beast with a hundred thousand brains, all of whom are THEORETICALLY working towards the same goal, but in practice are fighting their own corrupted data, or deliberately created diversions (I figure that if the G-M isn't sure which of two solutions to a problem is optimum, it simple spins off matrices to implement both, even if those two solutions are mutually exclusive), and thus may even be at direct odds with each other in the short term. This allows the kind of glitches that let people oppose it on the small scale, as well as allow things like Demons to exist.
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I would go with the opposite. The God-Machine injects chaos into the world, in the form of meaningless destruction. This forces those with free will to organize in a hopeless attempt to avoid the inevitability of chaos, meaninglessness, and insanity. The only reason that it is referred to as a "machine" is because it is inevitable.
“It is better to live doing the things that you like. It is foolish to live within this dream of a world seeing unpleasantness and doing only things that you do not like.” -- Yamamoto Tsunetomo.
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he only reason that it is referred to as a "machine" is because it is inevitable.
How does that jive with it being composed of actual machinery? >_>
You didn't even upvote once, you lying liar!
I did too. Not usre why it says 0, but if you mouse over the 0 in his post it shows my name. Maybe Glitch is trolling me. Or maybe I think up/downvote stuff is pretty dumb so don't use it enough to get it right. <_<
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@Ganymede said:
I would go with the opposite. The God-Machine injects chaos into the world, in the form of meaningless destruction. This forces those with free will to organize in a hopeless attempt to avoid the inevitability of chaos, meaninglessness, and insanity. The only reason that it is referred to as a "machine" is because it is inevitable.
It's an fun idea. What do you think of going with the opposite-opposite? A machine created to stave off entropy and delay or defeat the thermodynamic death of the universe. Playing it as the ultimate necessary evil - either it's in place with all of its oppressive and manipulative ways, or everything dies.
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I would agree with Raptor if I ran an NWoD 2.0 tabletop I would scrap the whole god machine concept completely. Just not my cup of tea. Much like when I ran NWoD Mage table top I excised any mention of Atlantis.
Honestly I think the basic God Machine as driving plot force is why I am so meh about the second round of NWoD.
I don't think ist is a bad idea just one I find to be almost the platonic ideal of uninteresting. -
@ThatGuyThere I'm not trying to say you're wrong (or right), I just want to point out though that the thread was started by @tragedyjones asking for ideas regarding God-Machine implementations.
It's like asking people what their favorite flavor of ice-cream is and responding "I hate ice-cream, it's full of empty carbs!", you know?
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@ThatGuyThere said:
I would agree with Raptor if I ran an NWoD 2.0 tabletop I would scrap the whole god machine concept completely. Just not my cup of tea. Much like when I ran NWoD Mage table top I excised any mention of Atlantis.
Honestly I think the basic God Machine as driving plot force is why I am so meh about the second round of NWoD.
I don't think ist is a bad idea just one I find to be almost the platonic ideal of uninteresting.It is only the driving force behind Demon, really. And to clarify, @HelloRaptor I only downvoted your for the Promethean hate. Hater.
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Deciding not to implement something is a valid answer to how would you implement something. To use your ice cream analogy, the question could be what flavor of ice cream do you want? None, thanks. See perfectly valid answer.
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In my mind, the idea that Demons understand what it is, or by extension what they are, should be patently false.
Given their own tendency toward the intelligence game, how can they trust their own memories of what they were created to do or their understanding of the God Machine and its agents?
Long story short: You don't know. If you think you know anything about it beyond "It's a demiurgic entity that wants to recycle us" you're wrong.
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@Ganymede said:
The only reason that it is referred to as a "machine" is because it is inevitable
Except that it's literally a machine.
“If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos
