X-Men Game

bored

I think Cable and Rachel are fine. Both predate the full glut of such characters and have significant history and connections. Plus, Time Travel and Future Past storylines are just part and parcel of X-lore and allowances should probably be made that some people may enjoy that sort of RP.

Rachel is only a little weird because she's basically just 'Jean II', including sharing the code-name (I took from @Ghost's list having Marvel Girl and not Phoenix that he means for Jean to have it, which... yes, please, her being default Phoenix from day-1 is always terrible to me). I don't really object to her conceptually/power level wise as she's no worse than being a another Jean, but... she's also just another Jean and that seems pretty lazy and also niche-crowding. Plus the more of them running around, the more it forces that relationship to the center stage.

Shaggy

@bored said in X-Men Game:

@shaggy said in X-Men Game:

I think Cable and Rachel are fine. Both predate the full glut of such characters and have significant history and connections. Plus, Time Travel and Future Past storylines are just part and parcel of X-lore and allowances should probably be made that some people may enjoy that sort of RP.

Rachel is only a little weird because she's basically just 'Jean II', including sharing the code-name (I took from @Ghost's list having Marvel Girl and not Phoenix that he means for Jean to have it, which... yes, please, her being default Phoenix from day-1 is always terrible to me). I don't really object to her conceptually/power level wise as she's no worse than being a another Jean, but... she's also just another Jean and that seems pretty lazy and also niche-crowding. Plus the more of them running around, the more it forces that relationship to the center stage.

Rachel's background is what makes her different than Jean, though. She grew up a Hound, raised to hunt her own people. She's chock full of trauma and angst, but is also pretty heroic and overcame a lot of that. She also had one of the sweeter mullets of the 1980s and was generally incredibly awesome in Excalibur. But I am generally a big fan of Excalibur (and X-Factor - Madrox is actually my initial first thought for a PC, but we're not nearly at that point, obv).

Bobotron

And honestly, I'd say let's leave Jean dead. I love Jean but eventually it'll cause 1) bad IC friction if there's a Scott/Emma relationship (which seems to be the 'default' for this setting, and 2) someone will bitchmoan about her not being Phoenix powerlevels.

BobGoblin

Is there a direction and purpose in the story of the game beyond 'existing'?

Autumn

@bored Rachel was a much more interesting character when she was tightly tied to the Days of Future Past era (and, yes, before that era got completely played out). She's still a reflection of Jean, yes, but a reflection in a broken mirror. But the further away you get from that, and the more she becomes just a normal well-adjusted X-person who happens to have an odd backstory that never really comes up, the more pointless it becomes to have her around.

In the comics that's obviously a problem because having angsty flashback trauma Rachel all the time gets old in about 36 issues (give or take a few). And then, apparently, it's required that she start dressing in tarty outfits, as required by law, and become a massive flirt (because fuck female characters who are too damaged to show off their bodies, gotta keep the teenage boys reading!)

In a game it's much less of a problem, because by the time Rachel goes through her character arc and becomes sort of well adjusted again, either the game has probably disintegrated, or the player has gotten bored and moved on.

Auspice

@bobotron said in X-Men Game:

And honestly, I'd say let's leave Jean dead. I love Jean but eventually it'll cause 1) bad IC friction if there's a Scott/Emma relationship (which seems to be the 'default' for this setting, and 2) someone will bitchmoan about her not being Phoenix powerlevels.

I hate Phoenix saga so much. I'd love to see a non-Phoenix Jean.

bored

@autumn @Shaggy

I'm aware of the things that can make the character potentially more interesting, but obviously, they're tied to specific storylines, which circles back to the design of the whole game. If it fit meaningfully for her to be there, OK. But I've only ever seen her on these games as a backup Jean taken by people who wanted the original. And just being the emo-tart version doesn't exactly make it better.

I do like the idea of just having one or the other, as @Bobotron gets at, and wouldn't mind Rachel instead. Overall, this is just examples of what I mean by saying you have to think about the storyline and the characters versus just smooshing everything in. Show a tiny bit of restraint, focus on the story you want to tell, etc.

scourge

@bobotron Heck, she'd dead at start then her coming back could be a mini-plot of some kind. Have her come back at non-Phoenix levels.

The Tree of Woe

Wiccan and Speed are also Magneto's grandchildren, which is their third connection. They have strongly alluded that Wiccan will inherit the mantle of Sorcerer Supreme from Stephen Strange and become an X-Man at the same time in various recent media, which is a smaller pip, but still a pip.

And honestly splitting hairs about who to exclude isn't really a good idea in any event. If someeone wants to play Hulkling and their explanation is his declaring 'Where Billy goes, I go' then that's that. If Speedball shows up and says 'Can I crash on your couch, somebody stole my wallet' he's not exactly bringing the whole Avengers roster with him.

The X-Men themselves are winding up further and further afield these days (Rogue, Cannonball, and Sunspot are all serving as Avengers right now) and the X-Men to me have been Mutant-flexible. Warlock is not Homo Sapiens Superior but they let him in anyway (it's because he can turn into a spaceship, always handy).

Autumn

@bored said in X-Men Game:

I do like the idea of just having one or the other, as @Bobotron gets at, and wouldn't mind Rachel instead. Overall, this is just examples of what I mean by saying you have to think about the storyline and the characters versus just smooshing everything in. Show a tiny bit of restraint, focus on the story you want to tell, etc.

I'd be fine with that, but then I always preferred Rachel to Jean anyway (as is probably obvious) :).

Ghost

@the-tree-of-woe But then that comes back to the original discussion. Sure, some concessions might have to be made for some key non-mutant FCs, such as Juggernaut, but the overall goal is to avoid the mistake some of these Supers games make in allowing too much scope until it just becomes watered down pockets of activity.

So it might be worth mentioning a few that have standing with the X-men enough to be regulars, like extended family. Perhaps Juggernaut, Hepzibah, Hulkling, and a few others, but not so much that the scope gradually starts to creep away from the X-men.

It'd be a slippery slope to suddenly having Avengers, etc.

Shaggy

To me, if something's on the fringe or the edges, you just let the player make a case for it to staff. If the case is convincingly made, go for it. If it seems arbitrary, just say you don't want to water down theme. Again, this is predicated over people taking no for an answer, which I know is anathema to some.

Bobotron

@the-tree-of-woe

I think honestly if the game allows primarily non-X characters, it gets into a slippery slope of theme dilution. I mean, Laura has been in the Avengers Academy, but I wouldn't want Reptil or Hazmat or Cloud-9 to be appable. I think, once the 'storyline' is defined, it'll help. Because it really needs to be a storyline that supports mutants and mutant-specific play. A lot of the 'story' itself though, comes from the Utopia setting itself, being a 'haven for all mutants' and the particulars that creates.

I mean, in canon, HAMMER used their fight with the X-men in SanFran prior to Utopia's founding as a 'win against the muties' press op, for example.

The Tree of Woe

@ghost That's fair, but ultimately I guess I do err on the side of nurturing people's ideas.

I'd even have to cop to allowing (ugh) Deadpool... he hangs out with Cable a lot and has positive connections with characters like Genesis. Against my better judgment.

But yeah, if somebody wanted to app Vance Astrovik or Firestar, even though they've never worn the X that's not that hard of a logic hop.

Also, in my mental canon, Scalphunter totally winds up the cook in Utopia's canteen. Because the idea of that terrifying killer handling the cooking tickles me more than a bit.

Wolfs

Honestly, if the idea of the place is to be mutant-centric, I wouldn't even have characters like Spider-Man or the Fantastic Four playable. Keep them as NPCs handled by staff or, if it ends up allowed, capable of being emitted by trusted players when needed (and documented for the sake of consistency).

Once you start straying from mutants into other territory, the creep just starts to grow.

Auspice

@the-tree-of-woe

I would not protest, at all, if there was no Deadpool. I don't think anyone can play the character in a way that won't make me want to claw out my eyes.

(But I am also so fucking burned out on Deadpool.)

Shaggy

@auspice said in X-Men Game:

@the-tree-of-woe

I would not protest, at all, if there was no Deadpool. I don't think anyone can play the character in a way that won't make me want to claw out my eyes.

(But I am also so fucking burned out on Deadpool.)

I think Deadpool's just hard to do on a MUX. In comics, he makes everyone around him look foolish, tweaks the nose of the world he's in and is general chaos. That's fun for a reader. But in the scene, it's your character and your world that he's crapping on and it becomes...marginally less fun.

Wolfs

The other thing with Deadpool is a fair amount of what makes him work in a comic book or movie is breaking the fourth wall. I just can't buy into that in a MU* environment.

Pop culture references are also a big thing with him, and that can be fun but also tough to pull off if the setting isn't considered present day. If it's a future timeframe, you almost just have to make up your own pop culture on the fly if you want to play up that side of him.

Aside from that, it's just rare that I've seen a Deadpool that just wasn't a bother to deal with IC or OOC.

The Tree of Woe

The thing about Deadpool is whoever's playing him needs to TURN IT THE FUCK OFF WHEN HE'S OOC.

And they never do. They think it's fun, or funny, or clever... and they never turn it off.

Auspice

@the-tree-of-woe said in X-Men Game:

The thing about Deadpool is whoever's playing him needs to TURN IT THE FUCK OFF WHEN HE'S OOC.

And they never do. They think it's fun, or funny, or clever... and they never turn it off.

It's because of the type of people drawn to him. Those that could play him don't, for reasons @Wolfs explains. Everyone else wants the attention and 'cool' factor of being Deadpool.

Which one can argue for most characters. But it's that 'not turning it off OOC' that's annoying. Tho it's annoying regardless of the character, tbh. I saw those logs in the UH thread where Logan was talking and jesus fuck dude we do not need the 'accent' in OOC/on channels.