Jan 23, 2018, 3:31 AM
@rahnevyn So in other words, you can 'win'. Which actually explains a good deal about the game.
Armageddon MUD
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@thugheaven said in Armageddon MUD:
@d-bone No I haven’t, so example please.
Make a character on Forgotten Edit: Kingdoms*. Will happen in the first day.
It's something that people tend to expect/associate with/be afraid of from RPI's. It's a very regular thing to be told "No ooc communication".
In fact, it's sort of a requirement for an RPI.
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@thugheaven It's bad to some people, because they don't like it. Belaboring the point to people who aren't interested in it is the definition of unproductive.
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Well there tend to be a few examples- but all of which could color a player to refrain from using ooc.
The first example is a new player asking questions oocly about things his character would icly know to other characters in game. Said players asked questions would likely respond not with an ooc answer, but a simple ask IC.
General communication about things you can do in the game oocly are highly discouraged, if not punishable infractions.
A benign question asked oocly- even if your character icly might have knowledge of such- that is illegal could be something as simple as:Hey is it a good idea to go outside the west gate and hunt there or is the east gate safer? Some games go find out ic, Arma has a much harder stance on that shit, not only do you not get the answer, you should be 'reminded' not to ask questions like that.
Thus after maybe a week of this behavior- of being 'encouraged' or 'punished' to use ic communicion only, a player is not going to WANT to ask for a retcon until the scene is far too far in.
(On the RPI I play on currently, during a travel phase to arrange play times for about 10 or so players.. I used ooc personally.. 4 times total? During a trip, over the course of a week. This was to arrange travel times.. with diverse players. Instead players tried to try and match u preal time to in game time which is all sorts of stupid and difficult. Imagine how much easier if everyone was just willing to use ooc and not afraid people would call them out on that shit)
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@ortallus is Forgotten Realms an RPI? I’ve never heard of it.
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@thugheaven said in Armageddon MUD:
@ortallus is Forgotten Realms an RPI? I’ve never heard of it.
Forgotten Kingdoms, rather, which is based on Forgotten Realms.
But yes.
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@roz if someone isn’t interested, then they aren’t interested. What it looks like you’re saying is no one here is going to be interested. Not true.
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@ortallus so are you saying Forgotten Kingdoms and Armageddon are the same? I confused...
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@thugheaven No, I'm saying that the people who are in this thread talking about not liking the idea of the playstyle are not going to be convinced by your pages and pages of defense of it.
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@roz why wouldn’t you defend it if it’s not true?
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@d-bone I’m still not clear on your example.
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@thugheaven So you're saying Armageddon has an equal amount of OOC communication and collaboration as your average MUSH or MUX in regards to OOC mistakes?
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@roz why are we comparing a Mud to a Mux? People tend to stay in character, but that doesn’t mean you can’t communicate ooc. In the very first post I linked a message board and a discord, so that you can see for yourself and not assume.
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@evilcabbage said in Armageddon MUD:
http://www.nysun.com/opinion/conveying-emphasis
https://grantbarrett.com/a-hearty-endorsement-of-shout-quotes-scare-quotes-used-for-emphasis
http://www.macmillandictionaryblog.com/the-emphatic-use-of-quotation-marksnow let's stay on topic.
Just a digression... I agree.
I confess to using quotes as emphasis quite often to the consternation of several people on this board.
It's probably a product of handwriting, working in a mainframe environment for many years, coding and playing on muds, where italicizing, bolding and underlining were not often available. -
Armageddon definitely does not have much OOC communication and collaboration. That's by design. But that isn't to say there's no IC forgiveness for OOC mistakes, either.
The instance of new players not knowing their character is illiterate is often raised as an example of Armageddon being unforgiving. In many years as a player and staff member I can never recall someone actually experiencing permanent consequences for a slip of the tongue with regard to literacy. Usually a combination of IC prompting ("What do you mean, read? You mean heard? No commoners can read of course, that's silly.") and light use of OOC ("Hey, see 'help literacy', your PC would know that reading is illegal) happens and the new player is corrected, and everyone forgives and forgets. In the moment, yes, there might be some IC consequences (someone questioning you), but an IC reply of ("Oh right, sorry, I misspoke") is almost always pretty much the end of it. For all intents and purposes the "retcon" happens, it's just not OOCly explicitly stated as such. I understand that it would feel frustrating to make a mistake your character would not make, but other players understand how that feels too and do not go out of their way to haze you over it. I can say definitively that if the staff felt like the opposite was happening, we would step in.
This usually goes down in the same way for other mistakes like not bowing to a templar, running around the city with your sword drawn, and so on.
In a MUSH or MUX or even other RP MUDs, these same sort of corrections probably happen more often via OOC channels. Armageddon and the RPI genre tends to downplay use of OOC. There are advantages to having more OOC and advantages to not having it; but anyway Armageddon doesn't. My point here is that that corrections of OOC mistakes still happen in Armageddon even if usage of OOC chats aren't as prevalent.
But definitely, there is no denying that OOC communication looks different on Armageddon vs. other MUSHes. There is no discussing a scene in advance or during or after via OOC with other parties involved. There is know "would my character know..." sorts of discussion that happens via a sidebar. Everything you know about the other characters around you is intended to be discovered purely in character via in character means.
These are design decisions that are probably going to feel different to MUSH players, and yes, they may make the game feel less welcoming, unfortunately. All I can say is the player and staff community is as OOCly welcoming to new players, and especially recently with the Discord channel I feel there are great opportunities to OOCly connect to the community and get help.
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@ganymede said in Armageddon MUD:
Now, if I'm taking what you're saying at face value, that leads me to the conclusion that being mugged, murdered, abused, or treated poorly may occur, but not as a consequence of making an IC mistake.
Am I understanding this correctly?
Because, if so, I still don't know why most people would be interested in a gaming experience where they may, for not fault of their own, get killed or robbed when they hit the Grid.
Yes, explicitly, that is the proposition of Armageddon. It's a roleplay-enforced world where there are permanent consequences and life is not fair. You may be mugged or murdered by someone you never expected to assault you, possibly you have not even met. No IC mistakes are required in order for bad things to happen to your character. Typically though, if you wind up mugged or murdered, your "mistake" was that you trusted the wrong person or wandered into an area that your character was probably not cut out to be in.
This doesn't mean that Armageddon is full of rampant indiscriminate murder-jerks who will look for every opportunity to hurt you. Roleplay and IC reasons are required and expected at all times, especially in any sort of PvP activity.
Why would players be interested? Because to some people (granted, not all!) this element of danger is compelling. It can be gripping and sexy. Permanent consequences make the game feel immersive; you can actually destroy your enemies and know they aren't coming back. Secrets can stay secret, because knowledge dies with whoever knew them. It also makes your own achievements more rewarding; the feeling of accomplishment in knowing you survived to do something few other PCs ever managed is a great one. In short, victories feel well-earned and sweeter, and losses feel more tragic. Tragedy can sting, but it also can make for great stories.
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@rahnevyn So in other words, you can 'win'. Which actually explains a good deal about the game.
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@tnp said in Armageddon MUD:
@rahnevyn So in other words, you can 'win'. Which actually explains a good deal about the game.
I wouldn't say that at all. Nobody 'wins' Armageddon, really. You can achieve things if you want, sometimes you can change the direction of a plot or even have something you were involved in wind up on the chronology page. I'm sure every game has its famous achievers like that. But win? Nah. In my opinion the best way to win Armageddon is to die in a cool way.
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@tnp said in Armageddon MUD:
@rahnevyn So in other words, you can 'win'. Which actually explains a good deal about the game.
I played it years ago. There is no player to player social interaction which makes it different from your hack-slash muds and social or role-playing mushes. IMHO it sucks the fun of out of both kinds of games.
I'm sure there are fans, but it's not my cup of tea. -
@thugheaven said in Armageddon MUD:
@ortallus so are you saying Forgotten Kingdoms and Armageddon are the same? I confused...
I said they're both RPI muds. In that way, they are the same. I'm not sure how that's difficult to understand.
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no, but if you don't bow a templar will see you standing up, address you, maybe remark that you should bow, and - if you read further - the consequence comes from refusing to obey that remark. you were informed icly that you should bow, which instantly removes your ignorance of the situation.
if you are still having trouble, you can ooc that you're still getting your bearings as you're new.