Creative Outlets

[Lithium]

@Zz @Arkandel You can, and should, definitely pose aspects of the character that are obviously telling signs, that's called... roleplay That said I don't mind the occasional outfit pose but... some people just are super frikken obscenely bad with it, they spam the whole screen with their intro pose, half (or more) is there description 'at that time'.

It's like... c'mon, is that an important detail? The black bra under the white shirt? Why is it important? IS someone going to be ripping off that shirt? Are you exposing yourself? Do we need to know about the thong undees (Which I love to wear, so comfortable, but I am not going to pose them in cuz it's irrelevant).

It's also kind of rude, to me, to come in and try to dominate a scene like that, because other people may not even be looking towards the entrance, they may not care what is going on being involved in a really in depth conversation, maybe they're drinking, maybe they're in the middle of a fight, who knows, the possibilities are endless!

So, if I want to know what someone looks like, I'd prefer to look at them myself. Otherwise, your PC is just another faceless NPC until I see reason for it to be anything else. Why? Because it's a city. Streets have people on them usually. Lots of people. Bars are usually pretty full, dance clubs too, etc.

[Tat]

Re: Creative Outlets

I once played a character who was a somewhat serious amateur photographer. This was a game where a lot of people wrote IC journals (another creative outlet I LOVE and wish more people loved as much as I do), and I used to write a journal for almost every scene and then find a picture to match something about the scene, a picture she could have taken.

I had a lot of fun combing through the internet for cool looking pictures of everything from IC locations to like. Laundry baskets. I probably put more thought into what sort of picture-mood she was in during that scene than anyone ever realized, but it was a lot of fun for me.

[surreality]

@tat I was just wondering about setting up something like that, for exactly that reason (I love this kind of thing, too), but wondered and was hesitating out of a fear it may only have been me. Now it is definitely going to happen.

(Thank you for being a very well-timed nudge! Stereotypical libra girl me waffles forever on these things without one miraculously appearing.)

[Goldfish]

@lithium
Regarding outfit posing:
Sometimes, the outfit is important.

No, for reals, guys! Here me out.

I play a character that is usually a jeans and t-shirt guy. But lo and behold, in THIS scene, he's wearing a suit. Maybe it's pressed and fresh. Maybe it's rumpled and the tie is undone. Why is this character wearing a suit all of a sudden?

It's all about creating those little visual cues within our text medium. It fills out a character and sends a message, one way or another.

EDIT: I just remembered a muslim woman I played once. Let me tell ya, a day didn't pass when I wasn't looking at hijab and hijab styles. Fashion was a huge deal to her, so I was always looking up outfits to figure out what she's wearing in this scene, even if I never posed it.

[surreality]

I don't mind the outfit posing thing save for in one specific case: when it's all label name-dropping and no practical description of what anything looks like.

Usually, the people doing this will be label name-dropping something in every frickin' pose ever even if it's not about their clothes, though, which makes me constantly have to fight the urge to drop OOC and be like, "Look, I don't even know what McGuffintyre Special Reserve Gold XVIII Louis Gourmand Edition is supposed to be from the context of your pose beyond 'expensive', so could you stop name-dropping brands of shit no one either of us even knows can probably afford to just let me know if we're drinking bourbon or beer right now so I don't have to google random shit thrice per pose just to know if you're talking about your shoes or your dinner?"

(I have the same eyetic about some of the anime characters on Shang using the Japanese terms in poses for mundane objects that have perfectly serviceable words for them in English, like 'bowl' or 'dinner' or 'shoes', which was a huge trend a handful of years back. Do not make me slog over to google translate just to understand your pose, people. Please. It is not impressive, it's obnoxious.)

Please, tell me about every frilly petal embroidered on your jeans if you want to, down to how many hours the couture embroidress slaved over it all and then studded your character's tasteless signature heart in real diamonds right across the crotch, but please, oh please, for the love of all things holy, unholy, and somewhere in between, do not be that guy/gal described above.

[Seraphim73]

@goldfish I'm a big fan of outfit posing when the outfit is a) out of the ordinary/different from their desc, or b) is important to the current status of their character (rumpled, bloody, neat and pressed like you said). Otherwise... I'd prefer a desc. And it really peeves me when someone uses a link to some high-fashion outfit and says "my character is wearing that." Like, okay, that's fine, but... eh. I prefer text to pictures for describing things that aren't going to be scene-necessary (I love reference photos for terrain that combat is happening over, for instance).

Totally agreed with @surreality about the name-dropping too.

[surreality]

@seraphim73 In fairness, I had a character show up at a costume party in this once.

Or, well, she was going to, but the party was canceled or something. I don't remember why she didn't ever end up going at this point. But, uh, in that case... yeah, I'm totally just gonna link that. Because omg, sometimes the corner cases like that are 'I do not even know where to begin'. I think that would have been: Zoe is dressed like a fuzzy bird-dragon in what might be a dress and might be armor and was definitely expensive and probably designed by someone with too much time on their hands and twice too much liquor.

Otherwise, yeah.

[Seraphim73]

Heh. Okay, I sort of get that. I'm a desc-nerd, and would totally try to describe that (probably starting with the segmented plates over the abdomen and ending with either the fringe over the hands or the snowflake/feather hair), but I sort of get that one. I think you get a pass on that one. But when it's just a pretty standard high-fashion dress? Eh. "Gorgeous red dress with an corseted bodice, cap sleeves, a short train, and a slit up to the thigh on the left side" should cover it well enough.

[surreality]

@seraphim73 Yeah, I am a costume design geek and that one proved a challenge even for me without getting super wordy. There are a few wild and really out there experimental designers and such I can see really needing the pics for to help make sense of things.

Other than stuff that far out there, though, I get all, "USE YOUR WORDS."

[peasoupling]

@lithium said in Creative Outlets:

See I love posing /actions/ people can respond to, not stuff that is a barrier to entry to RP. They can easily look at my character and read what I look like, or if they know me, they have already done so and posing it over and over again can be... intrusive.

I feel like people respond to what people look like all the time, though. Moreso if it's something that's likely to stand out for some reason, whether because it just does, or because of context. Maybe you're in leopard print, hot pink, and wearing gold mirrored aviators indoors. Or maybe you're wearing a vintage Dior dress with pockets, which is always relevant.

Either way, I don't tend to have a description for every single outfit my characters might wear. The closest is on Arx, but even then people kinda skim and assume all kinds of things.

[Zz]

@lithium There is definitely a time, place and arguably word limit. I usually limit clothing description to the intro part of the pose when it would be notable ....and then play with any shifts of lighting. Noir hats exist for a reason.

What you are describing - not really my bag. I think part of it is doing to the type of scene that is happening.

@Arkandel Agreed! It really adds something to the scene for me.

[Zz]

Back to topic though, if you can't tell I tend to do a lot of clothing research and tend to make aesthetic/mood boards and music playlists. I follow fashion pretty heavily so that makes it fun. Also I will sketch.

[Zz]

@surreality mhm. Couture.

[Lithium]

@peasoupling said in Creative Outlets:

@lithium said in Creative Outlets:

See I love posing /actions/ people can respond to, not stuff that is a barrier to entry to RP. They can easily look at my character and read what I look like, or if they know me, they have already done so and posing it over and over again can be... intrusive.

I feel like people respond to what people look like all the time, though. Moreso if it's something that's likely to stand out for some reason, whether because it just does, or because of context. Maybe you're in leopard print, hot pink, and wearing gold mirrored aviators indoors. Or maybe you're wearing a vintage Dior dress with pockets, which is always relevant.

Either way, I don't tend to have a description for every single outfit my characters might wear. The closest is on Arx, but even then people kinda skim and assume all kinds of things.

Yes people respond to what people look like, but there are /so many/ multi-descers out there that are /easy/ to use and manipulate on the fly. There's absolutely no reason to need to pose it every single time rather than set a multidescer up.

The why? Cuz if you are posing your outfit, you are going to have to pose it every, single, time, someone new comes into the scene, and you know what? We all don't need to read that crap seventeen times during some bar rp. We just don't.

It's rude.

It's inconsiderate.

It's spammy.

[Arkandel]

@lithium said in Creative Outlets:

Yes people respond to what people look like, but there are /so many/ multi-descers out there that are /easy/ to use and manipulate on the fly. There's absolutely no reason to need to pose it every single time rather than set a multidescer up.

The assumption you are making is that there needs to be a reason to pose things. Posing is the reason for it; I can have a wrinkled shirt in my @desc yet bring it up in a pose with some extra emphasis to draw attention to the fact my PC is a slob, or always late, or add an extra detail for just this scene (it smells of too much detergent! its front pocket is all stretched out! it's losing its color around the shoulders!) to help set the mood up later in the scene.

Hell, there doesn't need to be a reason. Roleplaying doesn't need to be efficient - writing perhaps does, but when it comes to character actions I appreciate details that might not even come to be important. Put as many Chekhov's Guns as you like and only use one or two of them in the end, make me wonder why they're there - feed me false leads and red herrings. Go for it, I'll like it.

Because we don't all like the same things, and eventually RP finds a way for those who do appreciate similar ones to group up together.

[Lithium]

@arkandel You're making my point for me. You can RP the small things without forcing people to read the same thing over and over and over.

[Arkandel]

@lithium said in Creative Outlets:

@arkandel You're making my point for me. You can RP the small things without forcing people to read the same thing over and over and over.

Well, I never advocated spamming.

[Lithium]

@arkandel said in Creative Outlets:

@lithium said in Creative Outlets:

@arkandel You're making my point for me. You can RP the small things without forcing people to read the same thing over and over and over.

Well, I never advocated spamming.

Yes you did, if you don't even have a description, and you are trying to point something out to multiple people about mood, or habits, or the situation, and you have to include your clothes /every single time/ you are, advocating, spamming.

[Arkandel]

@lithium said in Creative Outlets:

@arkandel said in Creative Outlets:

@lithium said in Creative Outlets:

@arkandel You're making my point for me. You can RP the small things without forcing people to read the same thing over and over and over.

Well, I never advocated spamming.

Yes you did, if you don't even have a description, and you are trying to point something out to multiple people about mood, or habits, or the situation, and you have to include your clothes /every single time/ you are, advocating, spamming.

Hey, you're putting words into my mouth now. Well, into my fingertips.

I never said you had to keep including your clothes every time you pose, or whenever someone new joins the scene. I never said anything about not having a description - all my characters do because... why wouldn't they?

Spamming is pointless repetition. If I tell you my character is wearing a black hat with a feather in it three times in the same scene then yes, that's spam since it doesn't add anything usable that wasn't there before. If I do so in the entry pose - especially if I promptly use it in a future pose to indicate my character treasures it - then it's not pointless.

Maybe you (specifically, as an individual) don't like to read about clothing, or moods, or you prefer a certain style of RP over others... that's perfectly fine. But it sounds like you're dismissing other perfectly legitimate ways to play some players enjoy - although I could be wrong about that.

[Lithium]

@arkandel Not at all, what I am saying is that it's rude to not allow everyone involved in the scene access to the same information when it is readily available information that is /also/ pertinent to the scene at hand.

If your characters clothing is of such import it needs to be written and mentioned when you are arriving, it should be mentioned when everyone arrives, so that they can feel involved into the scene. Otherwise, how will /they/ know what your character is wearing? That's why, in my opinion, clothing should just be described. If you have the ability to type it all out when you are going into scenes... then you can type it into a multi-descer and at that point all you need to do is RP the behavior.

It cuts down on needless clothes posing, and I'd like to think that while clothing is important, as is presentation, but what the rest of a character looks like is at least as important? So they're going to need to read your description anyways.

I guess it comes off to me as spotlighting behavior.