Fading Suns 2017
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Can I make a character yet?
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@buttercup Sadly only the first two rooms of character generation are actually coded yet.
Also @Arkandel it is definitely something I want to get at least the basics of nailed down prior to anything starting. Not having any kind of economy or military system was one of the main causes of staff burnout on Star Crusade not to mention infinitely frustrating for players stuck waiting a month plus for feedback on simple questions like 'How big is my army?'
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Working some more over the weekend on lifestyle expenditures.
The idea is that you sink X quantity of cash into lifestyle over each OOC month / IC season. For most purposes this is cosmetic, but at each level you have a certain degree of 'assumed gear', also 'assumed NPC minions and transport options'.
So most people in the setting live like this:
Many PCs probably more in this range:
People who hold benefices and are strategic power players though? More starting in this range, though the mighty and profligate could potentially go far beyond this:
In retrospect I rather regret deciding to be quite so detailed, I mean it is neat and something I am pretty sure I would appreciate as a player to set out what spending X amount actually means in character, but SO MUCH TEXT. Let alone trying to keep it consistent.
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@packrat That is a really useful breakdown with the examples provided for the different regions/etc. It definitely helps re: visualizing the specifics and what to expect. That's a very helpful and handy RP tool.
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@surreality Thanks, that is definitely the intention. The way the setting works ensures that most people are not going to be able to really work off gut assumptions about how their character lives - even though there is very advanced technology in Fading Suns, by the time you have something approximating a modern 1st world standard of living you are also somebody who has multiple live in servants.
Basically if you are rich enough to have a toilet then you do not need to clean it yourself.
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@packrat Some Brother Battle still have/had to manage their pseudo-feudal obligations! (Note: I'm not actually sure, I just wanted to chime in that I absolutely want to see Fading Suns come back).
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@golgoth Absolutely! I mean that generally only Brother Battle or the more violent sort of bishop are likely to view maintaining a military force as the primary destination for their benefice's income.
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This sounds great are the 3rd Republic secrets from the Dune universe post... 'hunters of Dune?
I mean in Fading Sun's is very much about we hate psychics and technology..
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@songtress Not a reference I am familiar with, but they are very much meant to be a sympathetic antagonist/enemy faction. I think Star Crusade in some respects suffered from the 'enemy' being the Kurgans (Space Saracens) and thus obvious awkward parallels to the at the time very much still active military activities in Afghanistan and Iraq.
So instead the player characters are members of a feudal society with 'the enemy' being a star spanning technophile democracy. Having said that there are in fact excellent reasons to oppress psychics in the Fading Suns universe and violently instigating 'democracy' into feudal societies is the kind of thing prone to causing French Terror or Russian Revolution scenarios.
For that matter even the most politically activist Guild member has reasons to like the status quo. If you look at those living standard posts earlier? A full guild member gets to enjoy the nicer end of the spectrum due to monopolies and mystery cult information hoarding not due to a free and open society.
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Count me curious and watching. I've never played Fading Suns, so this is new.. and I do like the sort of descent from utopia style games.. so yah. This is up my alleyway.
@Arkandel Let's also not forget that bullies or assholes will often leverage their physical stats in disputes to coerce people- and the only way to feel protected yourself is to have good enough stats to make sure you arn't turned into paste, or are a large enough speed bump that there is some risk to them- and that you can escape alive. Thats always why even though I make almost exclusively non-combat characters- I always max out physical/combat stats. I know it sounds stupid, and I know I shouldn't, but all to often you'll encounter that bullshit and then realize- If I just had physical stats I'd be more confident to tell that person to back off.
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I'm with @D-bone here. I've never actually played Fading Suns but I do love sci-fi and I own most of the source material thanks to a super cheap deal from Bag of Holding a few months ago. I havn't read much of it yet but it does look interesting.
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@d-bone That is part of why I am deliberately making the having of goons as a rich or powerful person a factor. Also an assumed factor, if you are spending X level of lifestyle? You have guards, flunkies with swords, personnel commando squads, suit wearing goons with blaster pistols, etc.
Sure if you are Baron Prettyboy Richguy and suck at swording then Dame Dirtbag can challenge you to a duel and poke a hole in you. But that is socially constrained and limited, Dame Dirtbag cannot just shove you around or punch you in the face, or rob you. Maybe Dame Dirtbag is so good at dueling that she can avoid most of the direct social consequences of being a jerk but Baron Richguy probably wanders around with a couple of knights and a dozen armed retainers.
Sure Dame Dirtbag is probably a huge badass who can fight two or three professional fighters at once but numbers tell and it is a really bad idea to instigate fights to the death with squads of elite soldiers so that you can rub a person's nose in your Melee skill being higher than theirs.
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@packrat said in Fading Suns 2017:
Sure Dame Dirtbag is probably a huge badass who can fight two or three professional fighters at once but numbers tell and it is a really bad idea to instigate fights to the death with squads of elite soldiers so that you can rub a person's nose in your Melee skill being higher than theirs.
At which point does money become the 'I win' button then? It sounds very much like you're making an attempt to reign in the +sheet Warriors with another version of... +sheet warrior except with resources/wealth being superior to combined combat skills.
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@lithium Basically, being rich is a big character generation investment. The idea is that if somebody is a baron, a powerful guild magnate, a senior priest? They are not likely to also be the best at things. Added to which most PCS are much more capable at their thing than generic NPCs.
A fighty PC probably cannot just walk up to a baron with a retinue and violence them in the face but if you are flying off to explore the ancient asteroid station then there might only be six places on the ship. Goons do not help you in a duel, somebody needs to face the Grimson in the gladiatorial arena death match, etc.
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@Lithium In the end, there's always a sheet, no? The only way to totally avoid 'sheet warrioring' is to run a statless game, and then you get 'I shot you' 'no you didn't'.
Actually putting this stuff on sheet is a big step up from the prior game (where some people were rich and had super stats, some were poor and had super stats, and some people just fucking sucked). There are still going to be issues in terms of how much wealth and title (which are theoretically separate in the books) costs you vs other stats and probably a min-max point, particularly because its an equipment-heavy game system and money can in some situations replace stats (ie, for those unfamiliar with it, the 'energy shields' mentioned at the PC midrange noble tier are Dune-style and make you casually immune to a number of threats).
The game is mostly not designed for everyone playing landed Counts and Dukes (who thematically rule whole planets or more), but that tends to be how MUs trend because... people like their titles. So balancing stuff at that end will be challenging, but at least there's an attempt being made.
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@bored Yes there is always a sheet, yes there are always ways to optimize/twink, because no system is absolutely perfect. I was just concerned @Packrat was shifting the tide of where the 'winning' +sheet design came in. @Packrat answered my question and if they can pull it off, then that'd be great and awesome. as far as investment goes though it seemed to me that going the resources way, was the 'cheaper' way, +sheet wise, to be a big bad.
That's what concerned me.
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@packrat That's absolutely phenomenal. I was wondering if I could take this chart and use it as a basis for a similar thing on the game I staff on?
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@bored Very belatedly, there probably is going to be some kind of min max point but the general idea is that PCs should not find it difficult to get access to the basics of good gear. If nothing else? If I try to make it difficult then some rich person will just buy all of their friends laser rifles and make a mockery of such restrictions.
Energy shields, synthsilk, guns or blasters, etc? Meh, I am pretty sure any player character can get hold of that stuff unless they are deliberately playing a poor person. Powered ceramsteel? To be honest? The same, though I would intend fairly strict enforcement of the fact that powered armour only has battery life measured in the hours meaning it is something that rich people break out for pre planned high intensity combat not something you wear on adventure or when walking around town. Also it is vulnerable to anti tank weapons in a way that energy shields are not.
The really fancy stuff like battle shields, wire blades, mist swords (lightsabers), fusion guns, etc? That costs character points and if you obtain such a thing through roleplay then it remains subject to being lost until you pay for it. Though going into 'xp debt' to secure such an item should probably be an option.
The idea behind high lifestyle spending being that it makes having access to a certain level of gear assumed along with the ability to temporarily kit out buddies without paperwork. If somebody is a rich bishop and they want to send people on a mission in an aircraft? If they want to send three baddass level NPC mooks to back up the PCs due to only a few turning up?I do not want to keep track of who has non military aircraft or precisely how many badasses somebody like that has access to, the rich bishop probably has an air yacht or a shuttle and can send people off in it along with having 'sufficient' numbers of moderate badass level mooks.
Notably, PCs who are not rich are liable to have goals in the 15-18 range in their area or areas of specialty. Generic NPCs do not get goals higher than 12 or 13 at the extreme. When it comes to combat goals? Professional soldiers have goals of 9-10 (9 for shooting, 10 melee). Veterans 11, special forces 12. Generic Brother Battle have goals of 12 across most areas along with a lot of combat maneuvers.
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Will there be sex in this game?
Lusty, exciting, illicit, chair-banging, table-slamming, noble-on-commoner sex? Sex intrigues? Seduction? Scanty clothing!
