The Basketball Thread

ThatGuyThere · Jul 2, 2018, 3:14 PM

@ganymede
I think the East will come down to Philly or Boston for a while after this year, both are stocked with young talent.
Right now I am thinking Raptors have a good change to go through this year, their personal destroyer has left the field and this would be the best shot while Philly is still growing and Boston adjusting since it will be the first season with Hayward, (I am not counting the five minutes they had him last year.)
West I still have to thing GS, they have won enough it is like LeBron was in the East, I will believe they will lose when it actually happens not before.

Ganymede · Jul 2, 2018, 5:44 PM

@arkandel said in The Basketball Thread:

Can you imagine Toronto finally making it to the Finals... only to meet LeBron there?

Third time's a charm?

ThatGuyThere · Jul 3, 2018, 1:21 AM

Cousins just went to GS, I officially want them to win again now, just so that the seam dynasty will have given us JaVale McGee, Swaggy P, and Boogie Cousins as NBA champs.

Arkandel · Jul 3, 2018, 2:13 AM

@thatguythere Yeah, fuck him. He took the minimum just to win a ring.

When former champions hold it over their peers who haven't have won this isn't what they had in mind. I could join the Warriors and they'd still win the NBA finals, so what?

I have no respect for guys who get paid well below market value (undercutting lesser players, which hurts them a lot, btw) just to boast they've got one.

ThatGuyThere · Jul 3, 2018, 3:53 AM

@arkandel
I tend to look at it from a perpendicular angle than yours, I tend to hate the whole championships equal greatness argument when it comes to teams sports. So I always want the there to be at least one ahh hell now that dude is a champion on every winning roster. For me Boogie is one of those guys, also with the other pair I mentioned.

Ganymede · Jul 3, 2018, 4:44 AM

@arkandel said in The Basketball Thread:

Yeah, fuck him. He took the minimum just to win a ring.

Honestly, the union should bust his knees.

It's one thing to take a hometown discount, and another to take the bare minimum just to get a ring.

I like long seasons because it increases the chances that some of these bozos will injure themselves.

Deleted · Jul 3, 2018, 5:03 AM

Word is Cousins wasn't getting shit for offers. That 'minimum' was all he was going to get at any decent-market team. With his injury and recovery he's hoping to use good teammates to maximize his value for next year.

The chances of him staying with GSW to hunt rings is virtually zero.

Arkandel · Jul 3, 2018, 2:03 PM

@admiral There is no way - none, zero - Boogie was unable to get 5 million dollars a year. That's Lance Stevenson amounts of money for an All-Star. Even at 60% due to his injury he'd be very easily worth twice as much.

Ganymede · Jul 3, 2018, 2:03 PM

@arkandel said in The Basketball Thread:

There is no way - none, zero - Boogie was unable to get 5 million dollars a year. That's Lance Stevenson amounts of money for an All-Star. Even at 60% due to his injury he'd be very easily worth twice as much.

After scanning analysis, I think Boogie's choice makes sense.

Yes, he's on the cheap for an all-star. So was John Tavares (NHL). But he's coming off a really nasty injury, and what better way to demonstrate that he's just fine (and make a big payday, like Jay Beagle (NHL)) than to win a championship in the startling lineup?

He wasn't going to get that opportunity from anyone else. No one was going to drop what he's actually worth, if healthy, and also contend. He wasn't going to Philly, Boston, or Houston, and who knows whether he'd take off with the Lakers, who are probably going to try and poach another all-star for LeBron for a four-year contract.

I don't like it, but it's a smart-ass move. Good for Boogie.

ThatGuyThere · Jul 3, 2018, 2:13 PM

the only reported offer I have heard that was anywhere close to what an All-Star contract should be was from the Pelicans to keep him. If he didn't want to stay there and was going to be underpaid anywhere else, might as well go with the best non-monetary option.

Deleted · Jul 4, 2018, 5:43 AM

I gotta ask, as a sanity check...

I am a Spurs fan. Kawhi Leonard. As a Spurs fan it feels to me like he just pussyfooted around and tried to avoid coming back even when he was ready because he doesn't give a shit about the Spurs and wanted to maximize his potential payday with minimal work.

All this crap about the Lakers, for instance, feels like a stab against the Spurs. Minimizing their ability to trade him off doesn't come off as very professional.

Am I wrong about him? Is he not a Dwight-Howard-Type? Someone explain him to me if so, because... I don't see it.

Arkandel · Jul 4, 2018, 1:48 PM

@admiral said in The Basketball Thread:

I am a Spurs fan. Kawhi Leonard. As a Spurs fan it feels to me like he just pussyfooted around and tried to avoid coming back even when he was ready because he doesn't give a shit about the Spurs and wanted to maximize his potential payday with minimal work.

All this crap about the Lakers, for instance, feels like a stab against the Spurs. Minimizing their ability to trade him off doesn't come off as very professional.

Am I wrong about him? Is he not a Dwight-Howard-Type? Someone explain him to me if so, because... I don't see it.

I'm a Lakers fan. I'd love to see Kawhi play for us.

Having said that, this was completely unprofessional behavior and a major bitch move on his part. You don't do that to the team who drafted you; the right thing to do would be to quietly tell the front office you won't re-sign next year so the Spurs are aware and can plan things out, give them the destinations you'd like, then play out the fucking last year of your contract for whoever it is with. It's one goddamn year in which you're paid tens of millions of dollars to play ball. What the hell.

He's trying to force his team's hand but that sets a terrible precedent. Contracts mean things. No one forced him to sign his, and threatening to not play at all is unacceptable. Worse, perhaps, is that we've heard nearly nothing from his mouth so no one knows exactly why any of this is happening; we're all just speculating based on rumors by his uncle (??) who's also his agent (a brilliant move, btw).

ThatGuyThere · Jul 4, 2018, 1:49 PM

@arkandel said in The Basketball Thread:

You don't do that to the team who drafted you;

But he hasn't done anything to the Pacers.

ThatGuyThere · Jul 4, 2018, 2:21 PM

Double post but on a different topic and because I love the to rub salt into wounds.
According to Marc Stein of the New York Times, The Lakers had the chance to sign Cousins to the same deal the Warriors did but passed on it.

Arkandel · Jul 4, 2018, 2:29 PM

@thatguythere said in The Basketball Thread:

Double post but on a different topic and because I love the to rub salt into wounds.
According to Marc Stein of the New York Times, The Lakers had the chance to sign Cousins to the same deal the Warriors did but passed on it.

It's so hard to know right now how much of what we hear is people covering their asses and how much is legitimate. For example I've read both that no one (including NO) made Boogie a better offer, and that NO offered him considerably more before the end of the season which he turned down.

The latest ass covering is that he's locker room cancer (which sound somewhat true, since it's been a thing for years with him) which coupled with a major injury prevented him from being picked up by contenders. I mean... maybe. I guess for the Lakers in particular when you already have the Lavar Ball shitshow going on, you add Rondo and Lance Stephenson to the mix and you have an arguable top-3 all time super competitive guy on top of tiat, you don't want to compound the team drama.

But who knows.

ThatGuyThere · Jul 4, 2018, 3:20 PM

First I tend to discount anything that comes from the principles in things like this so I don't believe he got no offers. NO almost definitely offered him more than he got but he also refused to extend with them in the past so I didn't expect him to stay there, and what NO has said they offered him wasn't much better given it consisted of team options after the first year.
They way I read the Lakers thing was that it was the Cousins side going to them and being shot down which is a bit different than just not making an offer.

BobGoblin · Jul 4, 2018, 6:20 PM

Marc stein is also a pretty shitty reporter. He gets a lot wrong and rushes stories to try and "scoop"

Ganymede · Jul 5, 2018, 1:00 AM

@thatguythere said in The Basketball Thread:

According to Marc Stein of the New York Times, The Lakers had the chance to sign Cousins to the same deal the Warriors did but passed on it.

LeBron probably gave it a hard "no."

Deleted · Jul 6, 2018, 5:42 PM

ARGH screw you Kawhi Leonard. Screw you so hard.

You're in San Antonio. All you gotta do is think... WWTDD? What would Tim Duncan do?

Hint: It's not what you're doing. If you can't work with Pop then there is no other coach in the league you can rely on.

Unless you want to go the Lebron James route and be so physically gifted that a team will let you completely bypass the coach, Cavaliers-style.

I'd take any Laker in exchange for Leonard at this point. Well. Aside from Ball.

Nobody wants that dumpster fire.

Arkandel · Jul 6, 2018, 5:50 PM

@admiral said in The Basketball Thread:

I'd take any Laker in exchange for Leonard at this point. Well. Aside from Ball.

There's really nothing wrong with Lonzo other than his shot, and even that is fixable. He's quite young, and at times he's shot well. You're thinking of his dad, but what is he supposed to do about that? We don't choose our relatives.

Nobody wants that dumpster fire.

The thing about this situation is that the longer it takes to move him anywhere the lower his value becomes since there's a free agency looming in a year. A non-Lakers team could hope to sway him by then, Paul George style, but in that case they'd need to start working on him early - encourage him to make friends, get used to life in Philly or wherever, show him the public's love, etc. If they move him in February there isn't any time. And by then the Lakers would have the Spurs over a barrel since they could just wait 3 months and get him for free.

IMHO at this rate a Kuzma+Hart+picks offer is as good as it will get, with two caveats:

The Lakers get into a multiple team deal to dump Deng's contract too,
A team gets desperate enough to take a huge risk, offer a lot of assets, and hope he re-signs in a year. But that's a risk.